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VM engine questions......opinions please
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81631		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  olypopper [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  VM engine questions......opinions please
Here is a link to my 2.8 tear down over at the Turbo Diesel Register. Jeep has 117,000 miles with nearly zero maintenance except oil changes.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/thre ... ost2428977

Questions:
1. Should I go ahead and bite the bullet and do a head gasket and new bolts/studs?

2. When pulling the intake last night I heard two small "tinks!" and further inspection revealed two small, cylindrical "dowel" like parts lying on top of the head.......I don't readily see where they go but obviously were in the intake/head as they are oil soaked.

3. I have yet to locate a few of the needle bearings from one completely destroyed rocker arm and will be pulling the engine to remove the oil pan and do some cleaning........should I pull the balancer to take a peek??? or not bother if I can account for all sheared rocker parts?

I'm going to send the ECU to GDE as well as totally delete the EGR, EGR cooler, go with the Weeks kit and delete anything else on this critter that isn't totally necessary for operation.....will probably go with that billet thermostat housing from Canada also.

Aside from the normal timing belt/water pump kit, new rockers and service items, what else do you high mileage guys recommend that I do?
Author:  flman [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
If you did not suspect a head gasket leak, save yourself a few hours, and put in ARP studs one by one. I did it on one of my CRDs with just over 60k in hopes of never having to pull the head over a gasket leak.
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
IRC #2 dowels are valve cover locater pins that fit in top of head. perhaps look at under side of valve cover for location in head hint
Author:  olypopper [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
flman wrote:
If you did not suspect a head gasket leak, save yourself a few hours, and put in ARP studs one by one. I did it on one of my CRDs with just over 60k in hopes of never having to pull the head over a gasket leak.


I don't suspect any problems as most visible indicators look normal..............but if I'm gonna have it down this far.......Maybe I'll just install the studs one by one like you recommend.
Author:  olypopper [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
papaindigo wrote:
IRC #2 dowels are valve cover locater pins that fit in top of head. perhaps look at under side of valve cover for location in head hint


That is what is strange.......the spot that looks like the pin location on the valve cover doesn't seem to match the head.............more looking in my future!
Author:  flman [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
olypopper wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
IRC #2 dowels are valve cover locater pins that fit in top of head. perhaps look at under side of valve cover for location in head hint


That is what is strange.......the spot that looks like the pin location on the valve cover doesn't seem to match the head.............more looking in my future!


Don't worry 2 hollow pins for the valve cover and 2 hollow pins for the head.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
The locator pins mount in the holes that match the underside of the valve cover, between the cam and the injectors. The gasket can show you where they came from.

The rear pin is on the driver's side between the last rocker and the one forward, and the front pin should be on the opposite corner - passenger side front, between the first and second exhaust rockers.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
You'll have to remove the ridge in the bolt holes so that the arp washers and nuts clamp down square. I didn't have to replace head gasket when I did mine, but I did anyway and I don't regret it, your over 90% there anyways.

I'd recommend removing the head and take both it and the intake somewhere to get hot tanked to get rid of every bit of the crud that's built up in there. They can also remove the ridge with a machine thatll do everyone the same.Do it once and do it right.

I heard the clink when I took my intake off and it turned out to be a hydraulic lash adjuster, a couple rockers were stuck to the cam because of the oil and it pulled the adjuster out.
Author:  SBrooks [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
Does this engine's head use valve stem seals? If yes, where's a good place to get them from? Are they of the typical style, or some other?

Thanks,

Steve
Author:  geordi [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
Through multiple installations of the ARP studs, including with the engineer that originally worked with ARP to develop the process personally watching and assisting, this was discovered: That "ridge" is nothing to worry about. The ridge was formed by the original deformation of the head when the factory bolts and their tapered shoulder were installed. The torque needed to lock down the studs and washers is more than that ridge can withstand, and the ridge will squash flat under the hardened washer about 3 pulls of the wrench before you reach that "click" point.

The passages within the head are much smaller than the outer intake, and the air is moving too fast to deposit any decent quantity of oil and muck. Removing the head to have it hot-tanked will be more trouble than the results make it worth. I have found that if anything needs to be cleaned, the best idea is just to submerge the entry half of the valve cover in diesel fuel - up to the cam but not touching the cam - and leave it to soak for a couple days.
This will dissolve the goo and it will pour right out.

The head gasket is better left undisturbed, especially if you do not have a leak right now. The gasket is coated, and removing / disturbing it will ruin this coating and potentially encourage future leaks. Removing and installing the studs one at a time preserves this seal. Also, please record your removal torques for the research thread when you do remove the factory bolts.
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
SBrooks wrote:
Does this engine's head use valve stem seals? If yes, where's a good place to get them from? Are they of the typical style, or some other?

Thanks,

Steve


Yes.
I got a complete set of valve guide seals from IDparts.
The machine shop i took my head to did an amazing job.
Completely disassembled, cleaned everything, inspected every part, and re assembled with new valve seals.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
flash7210 wrote:
SBrooks wrote:
Does this engine's head use valve stem seals? If yes, where's a good place to get them from? Are they of the typical style, or some other?

Thanks,

Steve


Yes.
I got a complete set of valve guide seals from IDparts.
The machine shop i took my head to did an amazing job.
Completely disassembled, cleaned everything, inspected every part, and re assembled with new valve seals.

Exactly what I did and the machine shop I took it to did.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
If you are down to the level of the rockers, it would be EXTREMELY UNWISE NOT to follow Geordi's advice to install ARPs, EXACTLY as he suggested (as long as you have not seen any coolant in the overflow).

DOC
Author:  olypopper [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
I'm going to pull engine, trans and transfer case today. I'll install a new head gasket, valve stem seals and studs. The reason for pulling the engine is to find the MISSING NEEDLE BEARINGS FROM ONE BROKEN ROCKER!!!

The trans will get a new TC and since there is almost 120k on it, the t case will get freshened up as well. Between this and my 1966 Dodge Sweptline D200 restoration I'm gonna be busy!
Author:  olypopper [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
Turns out it was a good thing I decided to spend the extra time and money. A couple of previous owner "mentions" had to do with what he considered to be serious clunks and rattles. Exhaust down pipe was loose at the V band clamp, transmission mount nuts were loose and trans could easily rotate side to side..........both motor mounts are "rattley" and the front driveshaft bolts were ALL loose. Not to mention some missing turbo hardware and lots of little leaks that need attention.

I can't wait to get the engine on a stand and tear into it. These little VM's really are a cool engine.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: VM engine questions......opinions please
I think it was a good call also, you'll have good piece of mind when it's all back together, and that's worth alot. I have no worries if my engine is gonna start, die out, or make it on that next road trip cause I know everything was perfect when I put it together. When you don't have to worry about it is when you can really enjoy it.
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