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won't start
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81724		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dan86 [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  won't start
Hi guys
Only owned my CRD for 2 weeks, so still getting used to it. Since I've had it, from cold it took a few seconds to start. I have replaced all 4 glow plugs, and that did help. Before I actually turn the key to start, I usually wait about 10 seconds after the glow plug light on the dash goes out to make sure it gets a good heat. That has been working fine for me up until last night. Went to start it, and it won't go. Turns over fine, but just won't start.
From the very start, I assumed it maybe had air in the fuel system, so bled that.
Image
Image
But it still won't go. I Have removed the MAP sensor and cleaned that also. Any ideas on what to try?
It was working absolutely fine yesterday, and then in the evening just wouldn't go. I'm sure it is probably something very simple, but just not sure what.
I also tried the key cycling trick to read any codes, but doesn't work!

Thanks in advance :)
Author:  gmctd [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
If you have not, loosen the fuel line at the CP3 inj pump, bleed any air bubbles till raw fuel drips out, reseal the fuel line, try STARTing again
Author:  dan86 [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
CP3 injection pump? Do you just mean the pipes on the filter head? Sorry if I sound really dumb :?
Author:  gmctd [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Unfamiliarity doesn't necessarily imply a state of dumbness - purging the filter head does not purge that output line to the CP3 - so, follow the output line from the filter head to the CP3 inj pump - loosen the hose clamp or the connection fitting at the pump such that you can purge any air up to that point

What's the ambient temperature at your location?
Author:  dan86 [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
thankyou for taking the time to reply.
before you replied, I took the output line off the filter head and pumped it up to get rid of any air. didn't seem to be any but worth a shot? I'll follow that line down to the pump and do as you've said.
As for the temp, I'm in the uk. it's bloody cold! about 9 degrees currently.

out of curiosity, what is the plug in front of the primer for? the one that sits flush to the pump head.
Author:  dan86 [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
ok. sit rep. I now have it going :BANANA:
2 things I now need to know. 1- what the hell happened so I can avoid it happening again.
2- will it start again tomorrow after having sat all night.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Dunno on that plug, the euro filter head is different than the US version - but, good show on the unknown fix - determination would have been easier if it had thrown any DTC's
Author:  dan86 [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Well it started first thing this morning. If anything, it started better than it ever has! I ended up bleeding the outlet pipe onto the pump to get it going. Thanks for the help. Hugely appreciated.
Author:  dan86 [ Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
ok, so a few days have passed since I fixed it. and today it wouldn't start again.
I had to take the pipe off the pump again and bleed through that. What would be the issue here? When I try bleeding through the filter head, little to no air comes out and it has to be through the pipe.
The pipe onto the pump seems to be a good fit and the clamp is going tight, so what the heck?!
any suggestions?
Author:  gmctd [ Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Fuel is much denser than air
- the CP3 internal lift pump puts 26" vacuum on the system to draw fuel from the tank thru the filter and via that line to the inj pump
- any slight air leak between the tank and the inj pump reduces the ability to supply fuel
- this can be from loose clamping or\and deteriorated rubber fuel hose
- an air leak does not show up as wet, fuel being much denser cannot pass thru the minute leak

Can try replacing the suspect fuel line, or an external auxiliary electric lift pump permanently solves this type failure - many examples of installation can be found on this forum

Here are some with examples of in-tank and external in-line, for your consideration:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26385

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78950
Author:  flman [ Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Maybe install a temporary piece of clear tubing at the outlet and inlet of the fuel filter for starters to see if there are any air bubbles going in or out? Does that have an electric lift pump, or just depends on the CP3 to pull fuel from the tank like the US version?
Author:  MicroBruin [ Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Funny, I 'm having a similar issue right now. Replaced the two easiest glowplugs to reach (#1 and #2), and it's been starting like crap ever since. I keep having to bleed air out of the system. Last night, I bled right before starting, and it still started rough. I didn't have to remove the fuel filter head, but it's almost like I loosened something up. I'm gonna take another look under the hood, and make sure everything looks okay. I really don't feel like dropping the tank. Plus, it seems very odd that this has only happened since the glow plugs went bad and were replaced. This truck has always started flawlessly for the last 1 1/2 years I've owned it. Now, it's getting grumpy...
Author:  dan86 [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
flman wrote:
Maybe install a temporary piece of clear tubing at the outlet and inlet of the fuel filter for starters to see if there are any air bubbles going in or out? Does that have an electric lift pump, or just depends on the CP3 to pull fuel from the tank like the US version?


no electric pump.
what i'm finding hard to get my head around, is once I bleed the system at the pump end, it starts fine. And it starts fine for days after that, then one day just randomly it refuses to go. It can be sitting for 3 hours, or 30 hours after I've bled it and it'll go first time, but then it could just refuse to start out of the blue. I understand that over time the vacuum can be lost and draw fuel back to the tank making it difficult to start, but surely after 24 hours of sitting doing nothing, if it wasn't going to start it wouldn't! but it does. how odd. I could literally start t, drive it, switch it off, then wait 2 hours. go back to it and it wouldn't start.
Author:  graycenphil [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Does it make any difference how full the fuel tank is? That is, is the tank low when it won't start, but full when it starts fine?
Author:  dan86 [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
No. Can't say that makes a difference. I only ever have it about half full anyway.
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Read carefully what gmctd posted, due to density differences the air leak won't show visible fuel leak marks. Fuel pump in tank would be the best fix for this "vacuum leak" you have. Replacing the quick connects would also be useful. Quick connects are meant for positive pressure (fuel pushed through) not negative pressure (vacuum or fuel pulled through), so quick connects may have air leaks but not fuel leaks. Inline free flow pumps are the easiest fix as you have to insert the pump in the fuel line, preferably closer to the tank so you'd eliminate other potential air leaks.
Author:  dan86 [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Thanks for the reply. I was actually gonna say I was thinking of chopping off the quick connects at the tank and just sticking a piece of fuel tube in place with a jubilee clip.
Can anybody tell me what size pipe I need? Image
Author:  dan86 [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
If I was going to install an external fuel pump, what sort of thing should I be going for.
would the likes of this be ok?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 50&alt=web
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
Go for a facet or Kennedy diesel. They need to be flow-through, meaning if they don't work, fuel still gets through. Google those 2 names and you'll get where to buy them.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: won't start
If you are planning on dropping the fuel tank to change out the fuel fittings and the hoses, which is not really necessary with an in-tank lift pump as these fittings work just fine under positive pressure? The in-tank lift pump is the least expensive option as compared to an external pump. The in-tank CARTER P76148M pump & gauge assembly can be found on line listed by several sellers for less than $125 with free shipping. :wink:

While the facet or Kennedy diesel pumps are probably both good pumps, they will cost you more to purchase and install. :roll:

Your Jeep is already factory wired with a relay in place for the in-tank lift pump to under the back seat. All that has to be added is two wires from that location to the top of the fuel tank! :idea:

Read this thread and it should answer any questions:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78950
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