Hemi TC -- Information to Consider

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

Has anyone used or heard of torque converters from Precision of New Hampton? A shop local to me sells the Hemi 5453LS (LS = Low Stall) converter for $190 including core charge.

http://www.gopnh.com/Transmissions.cfm? ... at=5-45RFE

Here's a link to a map of their distributors.

http://www.gopnh.com/Distributors-map.cfm

JAFO · **Joined:** Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:35 am **Posts:** 54

DOC4444 wrote:

We have 120 K towing 5000 lbs long distances with GDE HOT tune on our Euro TC without any shudder, yet.

Keith has two KJ CRDS with Euro TCs, one with his turbo kit. In testing out west in the Rockies, he extensively towed 8000 pounds. So far, so good for him.

I do not know anyone who has 200K on the euro, but I am much more concerned about my motor getting to 200K than the TC, at this point.

DOC

Do you have a link you can post. I want to look at the Euro TC as an option.

vgpwr · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:34 pm

I will go with CR2A from King-o-matic, low stall 1800rpm 140$

http://www.kingomatic.com/King-O-Matic/ ... or-Web.pdf

Page 98

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Why wouldn't you go for the CR2 which they spec for the 2.8 diesel. Is the stall too high? They state medium stall & lockup.

tvince0913 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:36 pm

Anyone have an update on the King-O-Matic TC? Or any of the Hemi TC options?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:49 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

Why wouldn't you go for the CR2 which they spec for the 2.8 diesel. Is the stall too high? They state medium stall & lockup.

CR2? I'd like to hear about this. Although, I'm finally getting around in the next week to installing the hemi one I bought.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2016 4:04 pm

Pretty impressed with the Hemi TC. It made an enormous difference in the amount of slip, or slushyness. The rpms used to just all over, and it was very obvious when the TC was not locked, now it's a lot more subtle, and I need to pay a lot closer attention to tell if it's locked or not. It feels better off the line as well, and you don't need to wind it up nearly as much to get going. I am really noticing the turbo lag now though, but maybe that's the taped vacuum line that I'm about to replace. I think the tape might be blocking the line significantly, but it's better than the hole that was there.

My only concern so far, is the vibration I get from 45-50 right before the TC locks. This is much different than the shudder I got with a stock converter (violent, almost bucking), it feels like a slightly bad u-joint, or a slightly out of balance drive line, so I'll be doing new u-joints first to see if that helps. But, like GMCTD said, this big of TD in a little jeep with have some shudder regardless of what TC is used. Maybe except the beasty Suncoast? Do you suncoasters have any vibration up around the 50 mph lock (I have a GDE eco engine and transmission tune)?

I need to double check that the vibration completely goes away once the TC locks, but I think it does. I know others have reported that the Euro TC also still has some slight shudder. The saga continues.

Polak · **Joined:** Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 20

Any update here? The water just keeps getting more muddy. First it was suncoast or nothing, then the euro, then the the hemi, then florida torque converters/edge racing/the torque converter shop, now kingomatic...

Just trying to get my CRD not to jackhammer when locked going up and down hills when loaded with camping gear.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:15 pm

Polak wrote:

Any update here? The water just keeps getting more muddy. First it was suncoast or nothing, then the euro, then the the hemi, then florida torque converters/edge racing/the torque converter shop, now kingomatic...

Just trying to get my CRD not to jackhammer when locked going up and down hills when loaded with camping gear.

It seems to be really tough to get people who have installed a Hemi TC, or otherwise, to come back and comment on the results. The only company that seems to actually get testimonials here is Suncoast, for obvious reasons. There have been some negative reviews after installing the Euro TC, but I haven't really heard anything negative about the Hemi TC or others as long as they are low stall designs. I take that as a sign that they are functioning acceptably. If that were not the case, we would be hearing significantly more negative reviews of them. I personally will be installing a Hemi TC in mine when the time comes...

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:39 pm

I've used hemi, Florida, and suncoast, couldn't tell the difference. Florida has the best prices. They have a "hemi" one as well as OEM stall one. Their oem one is really inexpensive at around $209. On eBay I think, but I'd opt for the hemi one

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:18 am

I'm finding that there are some interplay circumstances between the transmission and torque converter, through which transmission problems can perfectly emulate TC failure.

What I do know for sure is the Hemi TC is quite a bit tighter than the original CRD TC. (It pulls harder when stopped at idle, and requires less rpm to transmit torque) (lower stall)

With the 2010 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi trans installed, ...it works... The 2-3 up shift pause no longer exists... But there is still something funky going on. Even with the Sonnax line pressure booster, I still have slippage.

One thing of note, is with the hefty low end torque of this tune, the hemi TC lockup clutch gets it's tail kicked almost as easily as the stock.
My hillclimb test* notices improvement... It can now fully climb both sides in 5th locked at 55-70 mph whereas before it would always eventually downshift when the clutch let go.
With the Hemi Trans and TC, I can CAREFULLY apply power and control speed through corners and passing, but although the engine easily has the torque to accelerate, the Hemi TC lockup clutch lets go between 70-75. This is with engine RPM 1700-1900. Even there, just the slightest twitch of the right foot too far, and it shudders like it's coming apart. That's with 2 shots of Dr Tranny's Instant Shudder Fix.

My "personal" hill-climb test is almost exactly 5 miles from base to peak from both sides, with elevation rise of 2180 ft. on both sides. Good surface, and 2 lanes uphill either way.

My next effort will be completely rebuilding the original transmission, with new pump, shift kit, and billet TC.

What concerns me, is the transmission operation at the lower engine RPMs.
From what I can tell, the lockup clutch friction, is ALL spring force, and the hydraulic power provides the clutch release.
So there should be no issues of low hydraulic action due to low engine rpm. causing clutch slippage. I don't see how it can. Yet, it's there. I just don't know why.

r1perk · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:36 am

My Hemi TC has about 100k on it. I just towed 2 trailers, the front trailer had CRD on it, the back trailer was empty. When we got to MS. we picked up 2 1951 Packards. One on each trailer and drove back to KY. One CRD pulling each trailer. Yes it still shuttered. But it did not slip! I have had other TCs slip before. It makes the trans get very hot fast.

This TC was rebuilt in Dayton, OH. with kevlar clutch material. I was given a tour of the factory and found it to be very enlightening!

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:45 am

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I'm finding that there are some interplay circumstances between the transmission and torque converter, through which transmission problems can perfectly emulate TC failure.

What I do know for sure is the Hemi TC is quite a bit tighter than the original CRD TC. (It pulls harder when stopped at idle, and requires less rpm to transmit torque) (lower stall)

With the 2010 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi trans installed, ...it works... The 2-3 up shift pause no longer exists... But there is still something funky going on. Even with the Sonnax line pressure booster, I still have slippage.

One thing of note, is with the hefty low end torque of this tune, the hemi TC lockup clutch gets it's tail kicked almost as easily as the stock.
My hillclimb test* notices improvement... It can now fully climb both sides in 5th locked at 55-70 mph whereas before it would always eventually downshift when the clutch let go.
With the Hemi Trans and TC, I can CAREFULLY apply power and control speed through corners and passing, but although the engine easily has the torque to accelerate, the Hemi TC lockup clutch lets go between 70-75. This is with engine RPM 1700-1900. Even there, just the slightest twitch of the right foot too far, and it shudders like it's coming apart. That's with 2 shots of Dr Tranny's Instant Shudder Fix.

My "personal" hill-climb test is almost exactly 5 miles from base to peak from both sides, with elevation rise of 2180 ft. on both sides. Good surface, and 2 lanes uphill either way.

My next effort will be completely rebuilding the original transmission, with new pump, shift kit, and billet TC.

What concerns me, is the transmission operation at the lower engine RPMs.
From what I can tell, the lockup clutch friction, is ALL spring force, and the hydraulic power provides the clutch release.
So there should be no issues of low hydraulic action due to low engine rpm. causing clutch slippage. I don't see how it can. Yet, it's there. I just don't know why.

Wow, that's my exact problem, only I switched to a remanufactured transmission and a Suncoast, and the shudder is identical! Did you install the transgo kit parts in the front pump? That was my next idea. Watching a video apparently there is also one part that is behind the pump??
I'm also going to try a non tuned TCM, as I did that about a year ago, and I think I had some good results, but then had a major transmission failure and forget what I was doing with the TCM test :dizzy:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:24 pm

I think this actually has to due with lockup pressure, because I don't think that most lost members with an upgraded TC have significant shudder.

Anyone have a low stall TC with a gde tuned TCM and have acceptable shudder?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:56 pm

The current state of affairs on mine is :
Stock TCM This seems to be working fine, and has not yet been altered in any way.
Shift points are same as before.
2-3 upshift no longer has the complete disconnect delay.
Hemi TC is tighter (lower stall) enough to be very noticeable. Has picked up about 2-3 mpg on local roads where speeds are 35-50 mph (non-lockup)
TC lockup clutch holds more torque, enough to be consistent and measurable, but not nearly enough to hold this tune.
The 2010 Hemi 1500 5.7L Trans and TC (White connector solenoid pack) Used, 67k Miles, New filters and fluid with 2 shots of Dr Tranny's.
Trans and TC were put straight in as they came from the salvage place. No shift kit or pump pieces were installed.

I haven't gathered the resources yet to start on the original trans rebuild, but don't expect any issues other than the OD clutch pack. Either way, all clutches and steels will be replaced, along with seals and pistons, pump, and the shift kit upgrades for the solenoid pack. (Basic master rebuild pack.) Hopefully that will happen by mid-spring. At least at that point I will have a spare used 545RFE that I can sell, (with Hemi TC)

In all fairness, I have to say my decision to use the Hemi TC was made against the advice of other knowledgeable members, who strongly recommended the Suncoast. Had I delayed my trans swap another couple of months, I perhaps could have paid for the Suncoast, and perhaps may not be having the shudder problems I am now.
Mountainman's experience does throw some doubt in that direction though.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Mountainman wrote:

I think this actually has to due with lockup pressure, because I don't think that most lost members with an upgraded TC have significant shudder.
Anyone have a low stall TC with a gde tuned TCM and have acceptable shudder?

Personally I do not feel that there is any case of "acceptable shudder".
With a HD torque converter like the Hemi or Suncoast and a few others, and the correct line pressure, there should be no slippage when the TC is in lockup.
The transgo kit may be the key to having the higher line pressure that allows the clutches in the TC to hold.

I believe you are the first that I can remember reporting having a Suncoast TC and still having shudder in lockup?
But there again, it may be caused by other issues, and not the TC.

In my case, I have had the Suncoast TC installed since 2013 along with a new front pump assemble and a Transgo kit all at the same time.
Stock TCM.
Before this install, while testing the different Hot Tunes I could make the stock TC shudder in LU (4 or 5th) anytime I wanted to just by simply getting on the go pedal.
After the install of the above parts, thankfully I could not make it shudder or slip in LU no matter what I did.
Even after going to the Stage IV Hot Tune and putting the Power Puck on top of the tune, it will not slip.

I have towed loads in excess of a little over 3k up some very long hills and still never experienced any signs of shudder or slippage.

In your case, I would call Suncoast and seek their advice. :wink:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:12 pm

Well, there goes my TCM tune theory! I believe you are right WW, and another member said there's a spring that Goes in the front pump that increases the TC pressure. In fact my sonax booster kit came with one lone spring for the front pump. I really hope that I only have to drop the transmission one more time :furious:

I thought I could get away without any pump upgrades because it was the updated pump and a remanufactured unit. I should have listened to you all that were harping on the need for the transgo kit, because I believe that spring is included in that kit as well :banghead:

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:42 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

I think this actually has to due with lockup pressure, because I don't think that most lost members with an upgraded TC have significant shudder.
Anyone have a low stall TC with a gde tuned TCM and have acceptable shudder?

Personally I do not feel that there is any case of "acceptable shudder".
With a HD torque converter like the Hemi or Suncoast and a few others, and the correct line pressure, there should be no slippage when the TC is in lockup.
The transgo kit may be the key to having the higher line pressure that allows the clutches in the TC to hold.

I believe you are the first that I can remember reporting having a Suncoast TC and still having shudder in lockup?
But there again, it may be caused by other issues, and not the TC.

In my case, I have had the Suncoast TC installed since 2013 along with a new front pump assemble and a Transgo kit all at the same time.
Stock TCM.
Before this install, while testing the different Hot Tunes I could make the stock TC shudder in LU (4 or 5th) anytime I wanted to just by simply getting on the go pedal.
After the install of the above parts, thankfully I could not make it shudder or slip in LU no matter what I did.
Even after going to the Stage IV Hot Tune and putting the Power Puck on top of the tune, it will not slip.

I have towed loads in excess of a little over 3k up some very long hills and still never experienced any signs of shudder or slippage.

In your case, I would call Suncoast and seek their advice. :wink:

There were instances in the past where members with early versions of the Suncoast still complained of shudder, I believe when tuned. After the whole reason for the euro torque converter came out, pretty sure I remember Suncoast also modified their design to address the same issue on subsequent versions.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:52 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

What concerns me, is the transmission operation at the lower engine RPMs.
From what I can tell, the lockup clutch friction, is ALL spring force, and the hydraulic power provides the clutch release.
So there should be no issues of low hydraulic action due to low engine rpm. causing clutch slippage. I don't see how it can. Yet, it's there. I just don't know why.

No, the TCC is applied by hydraulic force. Any kind of spring in there would only be for releasing the clutch.

The reason for the low RPM "slippage" is because of the way our little diesels can instantly apply a lot of torque at 1800-2200 RPM. The dampening springs in the clutch can be quickly overcome.

Its also part of how the TCM is programmed.
Owners of a Ram 1500 Hemi may not notice this low RPM slippage because the TCM will force a downshift when it senses a sudden increase in throttle.
The Ram TCM and CRD TCM are programmed differently.

I put a Ram Hemi TCM in my CRD a couple years ago. It behaves very differently.
Aside from the changes in shift points, it "feels" like it has increased line pressure. Most noticeable when moving from P to D and it slams into gear.
With my stock TC, shudder has been almost completely eliminated. Although not necessarily just because of the higher line pressure. When accelerating hard from 65 mph (~1900 rpm), the transmission will downshift from 5th to 3rd before any shudder is allowed to happen. Not really a good thing for this little diesel.
However, this TCM will allow it shift into 5th at about 46 mph and will hold without shudder while gently accelerating on flat roads.

The Hemi TCM is a mixed bag of performance.
I wouldn't recommend it for everybody but it might be worth a try.
Got mine for $20 on ebay.

I've got a Hemi TC in the garage. Just trying to gather the courage to to drop the trans and install it.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Mountainman wrote:

Well, there goes my TCM tune theory! I believe you are right WW, and another member said there's a spring that Goes in the front pump that increases the TC pressure. In fact my sonax booster kit came with one lone spring for the front pump. I really hope that I only have to drop the transmission one more time :furious:

I thought I could get away without any pump upgrades because it was the updated pump and a remanufactured unit. I should have listened to you all that were harping on the need for the transgo kit, because I believe that spring is included in that kit as well :banghead:

Check those transgo instructions again.
I believe a special tool was required to ream out the piston bore for that spring.
If you installed a updated pump, that issue should have already been corrected.

Hemi TC -- Information to Consider

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