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cracked head! Now with pictures
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81813		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  cracked head! Now with pictures
Is there a way to confirm a cracked cylinder head without removing it from the engine?

I just got my engine running again after replacing the head gasket.
Did a lot of driving around yesterday and the engine ran great but at the end of the day I noticed the coolant tank was low.
This morning I filled it up and pressure tested the cooling system at 16 psi.
Confirmed 3 loose leaking hose clamps that I tightened up.
Started up the engine to take for test drive.
Water spit out the exhaust when started and white smoke for the first two minutes of driving.

During repairs, the head was sent to a shop to be checked for cracks and flatness.
The shop said there were no cracks found and head surface was still within specs.
Head was reinstalled with new gasket and ARP studs.
EGR cooler and all EGR components have been removed.

It seems unlikely that the head gasket would be leaking again.

I hope this is just a fluke.
Author:  reddan44 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Most garages can check for exhaust gasses in your coolant with a simple test, or you can buy the tool yourself. http://www.amazon.com/UVIEW-560000-Comb ... B000NPDL76

One simple indicator is having pressure on your coolant lines but that doesn't alsways happen, especially on a very small leak. It sounds like you did everything right by having your head checked out. Did you follow the proper torque specs and sequence and use a known calibrated torque wrench ?
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Its not a exhaust-in-coolant problem.
Nor is it a compression/combustion-gasses-in-coolant problem.
There is very little pressure building up in the cooling system.
The coolant is going almost straight out the exhaust. Causing white smoke for the first few minutes after starting the engine.

This is the same thing that was happening before i determined it needed a new head gasket.
The only thing i can come up with is that there must be crack around one of the exhaust ports.

Anyone have any idea what else it could be?
Author:  flman [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
I would say you have a cracked head if you put in ARP studs and it is leaking in a matter of days. My blown HG replacement worked for a couple of months, then it started using coolant again with the same symptoms, so I went ahead and ordered a low mileage head from VW specialists and problems are solved.
Author:  reddan44 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
When a vehicle comes into the garage I work at and I suspect for any reason there is a compromised head or head gasket I do a coolant test. Why? It's a simple test that will tell you if there is exhaust in the coolant for whatever reason. Was the head not torqued to spec? Has the gasket failed? Is the head cracked? I don't know, the source is what I'll look for second. I just want to know for sure if it passes the coolant test. It's certainly not a 100% for sure test but if you get a positive then you know your coolant system has been compromised in an area that is feeding exhaust gases to your radiator.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
It appears the most likely explanation is your HG repair was not successful, rather than the head cracked after it was just checked.

I have found with the KJ CRD, all standard leakage test methods do not show signs of small leaks.

(If you tried to use the stock head bolts instead of ARPs, that is probably why.)

DOC
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
DOC4444 wrote:
It appears the most likely explanation is your HG repair was not successful, rather than the head cracked after it was just checked.

I have found with the KJ CRD, all standard leakage test methods do not show signs of small leaks.

(If you tried to use the stock head bolts instead of ARPs, that is probably why.)

DOC


New head gasket.
ARP studs.
Torqued to 130 ft/lbs inner rows, 125 outer rows.

What could have gone wrong?
Author:  Mountainman [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Did the machine shop only pressure check the combustion chamber, and not the water jacket? I was advised by a machine shop that only some shops have the right equipment to test both on this particular head... I hope I'm wrong :2cents:
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Mountainman wrote:
Did the machine shop only pressure check the combustion chamber, and not the water jacket? I was advised by a machine shop that only some shops have the right equipment to test both on this particular head... I hope I'm wrong :2cents:


Thats what i am now wondering.
When i asked they guy at the shop about testing it for leaks, he explained how he could plate off the ports of the head, fill with water, and test for leaks under pressure.
It sounded good to me and he sounded like he knew what he was doing.
However, he had never seen a head like this before.
I really have no idea of what procedures he followed.
He made that head look brand new and when he said it was was good to go, I took his word for it.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Well, when you take it apart, it will be obvious if the HG has been leaking by examining the gasket.

DOC
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
This is the thread i started when i pulled the head off:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81469
It includes pics of the head and gasket.

To me, the head and gasket didnt show any obvious signs of a leak.
The only thing obvious to me was that cyl #2 was full of water.
Author:  olypopper [ Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Another gent on here recommends pulling the glow plugs and pressurizing the cooling system. If water pours out of the glow plug holes, YOU GOT ISSUES!!

Not having real experience with these engines, I have to ask, was it a good idea to spray the head gasket prior to assembly? I usually don't spray head gaskets on diesels.
Author:  funnyman06 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
have you checked your EGR cooler?
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
funnyman06 wrote:
have you checked your EGR cooler?


EGR cooler and all EGR components were removed during the head gasket repair.
During that process I tested and confirmed that the EGR cooler was leaking however it should not have allowed any coolant into the exhaust because it was blocked and disabled.

During disassembly I inspected all the parts.
Both the exhaust manifold and turbo had evidence of coolant/water being passed through them.

olypopper wrote:

Not having real experience with these engines, I have to ask, was it a good idea to spray the head gasket prior to assembly? I usually don't spray head gaskets on diesels.


The spray I used is Mopar P/N 04318035 Spray Gasket Sealant.
I used it because:
1. There was some discussion here about spraying the head gasket with "copper coat" during installation.
2. Research on MLS gaskets showed that this was recommended to help seal MLS head gaskets. Basically its just a light coating of red sticky stuff.
Author:  funnyman06 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Thats good that the EGR is all gone. But basically you are left with only a few ways for coolant to enter the combustion chamber and or exhaust. The head is cracked, the liners are cracked, or the head gasket is leaking. When you pulled the head, how did the liners look? My engine is in the process of getting rebuilt, head was cracked and liners were cracked and EGR cooler was bad. When they pulled the head they found the gasket was actually in decent shape, but the liners, not so much.
Author:  flman [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
flash7210 wrote:
funnyman06 wrote:
have you checked your EGR cooler?


EGR cooler and all EGR components were removed during the head gasket repair.
During that process I tested and confirmed that the EGR cooler was leaking however it should not have allowed any coolant into the exhaust because it was blocked and disabled.

During disassembly I inspected all the parts.
Both the exhaust manifold and turbo had evidence of coolant/water being passed through them.

olypopper wrote:

Not having real experience with these engines, I have to ask, was it a good idea to spray the head gasket prior to assembly? I usually don't spray head gaskets on diesels.


The spray I used is Mopar P/N 04318035 Spray Gasket Sealant.
I used it because:
1. There was some discussion here about spraying the head gasket with "copper coat" during installation.
2. Research on MLS gaskets showed that this was recommended to help seal MLS head gaskets. Basically its just a light coating of red sticky stuff.


I recall you did say that in a previous thread. I was going to comment, but I figured you were already too far into it any ways, so we will just see how it goes?

I would not use any spray of any kind, as it did not work for me. The gasket already has a sealer on it, and the spray only seems to compromise it, rather then help it.

Gasket leak will be obvious if that is the problem, when you tear it back down.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
You know what the worst part about all this is?

The dam engine runs great.
If it ran like crap then i would definitely know i screwed something up.
Author:  funnyman06 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
Well if you tear it down, hopefully its just the headgasket and you will be back on the road.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
A cracked wet liner would put coolant into the oil I would think. I liked the idea of putting the coolant system under pressure with the injectors removed and seeing if you get coolant out any of the cylinders. :idea:
Obviously you have a leaking HG or a crack in either one of the intake or exhaust ports on one cylinder on the head. :shock:
A through and properly done pressure test should have shown any cracks/leaks on the head itself.... :roll:
Keep us posted!
Author:  funnyman06 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cracked head?
There were cracks in my liners and I didnt have any chocolate milk action.
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