No start, no dashboard, rest of lights OK

juliecracker · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 3:44 am

Hi, I've only had my 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD for about a month but this board has already been a huge help. Thanks!

My problem is that the Jeep currently won't start. The remote works to lock/unlock the doors (although I feel like it didn't work once, but it seems to be working now). The interior lights work, the "door open" bell works, the factory car alarm works (horn), the seat controls work (the radio is currently pulled out, so I don't know if it works). But when I put the key in the ignition and turn it the dash lights don't come on. Sometimes the alarm (red dot) light comes on. Turning the key all the way to start does nothing - no click, no other noises, no start. Plugging in the OBD II gives no information - there doesn't appear to be power to it.

We were doing two projects at once, so I'm not entirely sure what made it stop working. One project was just looking for wires for the trailer brake controller - removing trim pieces but not actually doing anything with the wires. However I had a friend helping and don't know if he did anything else by accident (he doesn't think so).

The 7-pole connector for my trailer wiring was corroded, so we replaced it with one from etrailer a week or so earlier. The original connector was hardwired (no plug for a wiring harness, despite various documentation implying there should have been), so we cut it and connected the new connector via wire nuts since I was leaving on a weekend trip and wanted to take the new (to me) Jeep. It worked fine. When I got home I took each wire nut off in turn and soldered the wires and finished with heat shrink tubing. My process was to prep the next set while the previous were cooling (before pulling the tubing over the soldered wires). One solder was bad - on the ground wire. The wires popped open while I had another set of wires exposed (it was either the reverse lights or the left turn signal - neither of which should have been live). I admit I got distracted when I was getting ready to disconnect the battery and forgot to do it :-(

All the fuses look ok, the battery was new in February, and all of the solders in the hitch 7-pole wiring look OK. I didn't see any other postings where the dash lights don't come on with the no start condition (but the interior lights are OK), so I thought I'd see if anyone had any clues as to where I should look next.

- Is there any clue in the combination of which lights/power is on vs. off? For example which fuse(s) to check/replace regardless of how it looks?

- Any other tips of where to look next?

Thanks!
julie
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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
2003 VW Jetta TDI
2000 Ford Excursion XLT (diesel)
2007 Wells Cargo TW101-V (custom camping trailer)

senatorjohn · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 5:00 am

Have you checked fuse 14 of the junction block at the end of the dash assembly. It powers the ECM, TCM on autos, MAF and ABS. My CRD has blown it three times and comes to a dead stop. No crank, security light on, no check engine light when ignition is switched on, no fuel gauge reading, and scan tool will not communicate with anything but the SRS module. Can possibly give more info if you need it.
John

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 8:37 am

Take a look at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

juliecracker · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 11:50 am

senatorjohn - perfect, i'll check that specifically!

papaindigo - reading that thread is what prompted me to post, since my issue is not intermittent. it has worked fine for 1500 miles and then suddenly nothing (with repeated tries). but i will definitely try the starter relay jumper this weekend and the battery swap.

thanks for the quick response!!
j

geordi · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 4:10 pm

That fuse is the most likely suspect for this situation, and I have no earthly idea why they routed the AC compressor into the computer circuit. If the AC coil is drawing too much power b/c of the load from hot weather or a possibly failing AC system, then the whole works comes to a dead stop. Kinda a dumb design.

juliecracker · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 7:43 pm

So my fuses all look OK. I didn't use the multimeter on all of them, but did for a couple and pulled and visually inspected them all.

Here is what is getting power: remote lock/unlock, interior lights, odometer, ignition key chime (door open, headlights on), power door lock, headlights, brake lights, seat adjustment, flasher, front power port, rear power port.

Here is what is not getting power: instrument panel (other than odometer), turn signals, windows, side mirror adjustment, radio, sunroof, overhead console, tail lights.

We jumpered the starter relay and the starter turned over, so it's definitely not the starter. I guess it could be the ignition starter switch and actuator pin, but the fact the dashboard and all those other systems aren't getting power seems to point to something less specific than the ignition starter system.

Any chance that the set of things that are getting/not getting power points to where next to look?
Thanks!!
julie

juliecracker · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 12:37 am

Tomorrow I should be able to pick up a new ignition starter switch and ignition switch actuator pin. Fingers crossed!

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 1:08 pm

All testing at this point should be done with the trailer wiring connector fully disconnected from the JEEP wiring connector

What is the actual battery voltage measured directly across the battery posts?

What is the actual voltage measured directly across the battery cable clamps?

'05 FSM is a free download from this website(You may be interested in Section 8w-WIRING, 8w-10-1 power and 8w-54-1 trailer tow - just click on the page of interest to display that page) :

http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

juliecracker · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 10:33 pm

Today's update. Note that the trailer wiring is all hard-wired now, and had previously all been tested and working (via wire nuts instead of soldered). I'm not quite prepared to cut all the soldered wires since there isn't enough slack in the wires to just re-solder them and I'll have to splice new segments in all of them to get them to reach.

We replaced the new ignition starter switch and ignition switch actuator pin, and - other than having better feedback on the key (easier to find the lock position) - there is no change. Still no power to the dashboard and nothing comes on when the key moves to the On position (not even the security light).

We checked the battery again this morning and the charger indicated it was still at 100% (it shut itself off). After doing the work on it today (with the doors open, sometimes with the key in the ignition) the voltage on the battery measures:
- 12.43 V across the posts and the clamps with the clamps on
- 12.47 V across the posts with the clamps removed

From what I read, "low" voltage might affect the start, but how would that affect the dash lights (nothing at all lights up when the key is in the "On" position, other than the odometer which turns on when the key is first inserted).

We found the FSM and have been referring to it - thanks! Unfortunately we haven't found any clues as to what might be the problem...

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 am

Now refer to 8w-10-1 power distribution and 8w-40-1 instrument cluster - trace back from instrument cluster and lamps thru power distribution to battery supply

And you can keep the battery on charge while troubleshooting, eh........

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 8:17 am

Just a thought .... Have you disconnected the ECU for about a minute and then reconnected it?

juliecracker · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 12:04 pm

we didn't think of disconnecting the ECU - that should be relatively painless to try. thanks!

we've been chasing those wiring diagrams all weekend. we're still stumped about the fact that the dashboard/instrument cluster has no power when you turn the key to run - clearly before the starter is involved. we're suspicious of the BCM, although we're still trying to work out which elements of the electrical diagram are related to dash indicators (door ajar) vs. the actual sensors (chime when door ajar and key in ignition - which works).

i suppose if we disconnect the BCM and there is no change then it's somewhat suspicious. i read another post that indicated we might even be able to smell/see signs of it having been fried....

one more day to try to sort it out before it sits for another week (and cancels plans for another weekend....).

geordi · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 12:54 pm

FWIW, I believe the BCM is actually built into the back of the fuse box. If the remote locks work and the radio works, that should all be under the BCM control. The dash is controlled by the ECM, and the computer has to go through a whole self-check before the computer will authorize power to be sent to the starter - turning the key only sends a request to the computer, it isn't like the old days where it powers a relay and directly juices the starter. Those days are LOOOOONG past. Everything is computer controlled right now.

This does seem that the computer is completely lacking power. I wish I had more information for you, but I'm pretty stumped too.

juliecracker · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 1:26 pm

geordi thanks for the overview of the ECM vs. BCM. one of the reasons i suspect the BCM is that so many threads indicate there can be erratic behavior when there is a problem with the BCM. the remote locks work but the radio does NOT.

either way, i hope to do some more checking of both today. just getting geared up (warmed up) to head out to the garage (unlike most of the country, it's actually cold - for us - this time of year: coastal northern california)

geordi · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 3:16 pm

Bay area? I'm actually going to be out there in a couple weeks, did you need anything worked on in the engine? Timing belt / rockers / studs / elbow kit / plugs? If so - lets talk quickly, I'm looking to buy the tickets tonight.

juliecracker · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 3:22 pm

geordi - that is so tempting and really appreciated! however, i'll be gone jun 12-21, so am trying to get things working for my trip (taking the jeep) and don't want to start anything more before then (especially given how things are going now!).

do you come out here periodically? i'd love to take advantage of the offer next time!

juliecracker · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 12:59 am

Today we put the truck battery in place of the Jeep battery (although there was no indication the Jeep battery had any problem) - no change. We unplugged/replugged the ECU - no change. We unplugged/replugged the BCM - no change. We drained the capacitors to reset everything - no change. We checked the grounds we could find - they all looked fine. We walked through the wiring diagrams for the connections that might have been affected when working on the trailer hitch connector wiring, but no clues. We manually checked a bunch of fuses again - all good.

We've ordered a BCM through Ebay to try and see if there is any change putting that in. If that doesn't make a difference we're headed to the dealer (unless anyone has another suggestion for a mechanic in NorCal to have check it out).

(We still have to figure out how to get the stupid grab handle screws out to fully access the BCM - if anyone has a tip even just for that part we'd finally feel like we were making some progress!)

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 2:05 am

The BCM is factory programmed to your KJ's order specifications - replacing it will require dealer-reprogramming.....if you can even get it out: it's part of the fusebox assembly on the driver's-side of the dash - the entire fusebox must be removed to service the BCM

juliecracker · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 2:18 am

gmctd wrote:

The BCM is factory programmed to your KJ's order specifications - replacing it will require dealer-reprogramming.....if you can even get it out: it's part of the fusebox assembly on the driver's-side of the dash - the entire fusebox must be removed to service the BCM

Other posts have indicated if it's the same part number it should work. What exactly must be programmed by the dealer?

I'm hoping if this fixes the problem we can always take it to the dealer to get programmed. We almost got the BCM out today, but decided to put it all back together since we didn't have a replacement part in hand. Of course since it's not running it doesn't make much difference...

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 7:38 am

FSM section 8E-5

No start, no dashboard, rest of lights OK

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