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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:13 pm 
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That seems low.
I can hit 22psi at only half throttle but I'm pretty much at sea level.
I suspect you have either:
A. A boost leak somewhere. Like maybe hoses or intercooler.
Or
B. Something wrong with the turbo vane actuator. Like maybe its stuck or something is wrong with vacuum control.

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:46 am 
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Try to read the psi with maf unplugged if the turbo rise , the problem for me is the maf , maf reading always change with the rpm and load and at full WOT you can see 156 and more g/s , but if your maf is dead you have a false reading on the g/s and poor engine performance

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:17 am 
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Yeti wrote:
Try to read the psi with maf unplugged if the turbo rise , the problem for me is the maf , maf reading always change with the rpm and load and at full WOT you can see 156 and more g/s , but if your maf is dead you have a false reading on the g/s and poor engine performance


Yeti, I tried unplugging the maf with no effect.

I really havent driven it much since it's the wifes daily and she doesnt want to drive my aircraft carrier of a truck. I did finally get to drive it the last two days since i had to park overnight at the airport and I noticed a few things:

- When driving in traffic and having to make quick jabs at the throttle while maneuvering, I would get a decent delay in throttle response along with a big puff of black soot before the turbo would kick in and get me moving. Once the turbo gets going the soot goes away, unless i am at WOT where I get a constant stream of soot.

- When stepping on the gas leaving a stop light I would roll into the throttle and get very little oomph so I would over compensate to get moving. After a few seconds, the turbo would get going and the jeep takes off like a rocket and I would have to pull back off the throttle to not look like an booty trying to race everyone.

-Last but not least, when I monitor the MAP at idle, it shows a vacuum. When I was back in massachusetts it always showed 2-3 psi positive pressure. I dont know if this is just because of the altitude or what.

Basically it feels like it has bad turbo lag like my subaru legacy used to have. This leads me to believe that maybe the turbo vanes are sticky or maybe the vacuum control system is leaky causing slow response. What can you do if the issue is with the turbo itself?

Also the jeep feels pretty weak. It has a hard time climbing some of the passes at highway speeds without a substantial amount of throttle being used. I have a set of 265/70-16's about to go on and am worried it wont be able to stay at highway speed around here. Aside from that it seems to be ok. I still get an avg 29 mpg and was getting 34 on the highway to the airport.

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Well the turbo itself shouldn't be the issue but you might want to pull the turbo side CAC hose and air box to turbo hose and wiggle the turbo fan; if good there will be no more than slight fore/aft play and barely perceptible side to side play.

Otherwise try
1. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70602&p=757348&hilit=boost+solenoid#p757348
2. turbo vane check per GDE "You can check the vane functionality at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane movement."

MAP idle reading does not sound right but on that I'm just guessing.

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:36 pm 
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try what papaindigo suggest to see if the vane are stuck , but I think the ECU set a P0299 code , you can see the rod go down and up with an help of a torch , and inspect the turbo hose and inlet hose ....especially where the original ccv is connected .....I see you have the EHM .....

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:51 am 
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So I cleaned the MAP sensor(which was pretty clean anyways) and pulled Turbo inlet pipe, hot and cold side CAC hoses, and everything looked great. The turbo inlet didnt have any oil in it or cracking. CAC hoses are mishimoto silicone so those are good. I did also unbolt the vacuum actuator from the turbo and did notice that the rod didnt move freely. I dont know if this is how its supposed to be but it took a bit to move it up and down even after I cycled it a few times. You could hear the vanes moving though.

I didnt check it at idle because I couldnt see under the vacuum actuator to tell if the rod moved.

Edit: Oh and I cleaned my AFE filter for good measure.

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:58 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
Yeti wrote:
Try to read the psi with maf unplugged if the turbo rise , the problem for me is the maf , maf reading always change with the rpm and load and at full WOT you can see 156 and more g/s , but if your maf is dead you have a false reading on the g/s and poor engine performance


Yeti, I tried unplugging the maf with no effect.

I really havent driven it much since it's the wifes daily and she doesnt want to drive my aircraft carrier of a truck. I did finally get to drive it the last two days since i had to park overnight at the airport and I noticed a few things:

- When driving in traffic and having to make quick jabs at the throttle while maneuvering, I would get a decent delay in throttle response along with a big puff of black soot before the turbo would kick in and get me moving. Once the turbo gets going the soot goes away, unless i am at WOT where I get a constant stream of soot.

- When stepping on the gas leaving a stop light I would roll into the throttle and get very little oomph so I would over compensate to get moving. After a few seconds, the turbo would get going and the jeep takes off like a rocket and I would have to pull back off the throttle to not look like an booty trying to race everyone.

-Last but not least, when I monitor the MAP at idle, it shows a vacuum. When I was back in massachusetts it always showed 2-3 psi positive pressure. I dont know if this is just because of the altitude or what.

Basically it feels like it has bad turbo lag like my subaru legacy used to have. This leads me to believe that maybe the turbo vanes are sticky or maybe the vacuum control system is leaky causing slow response. What can you do if the issue is with the turbo itself?

Also the jeep feels pretty weak. It has a hard time climbing some of the passes at highway speeds without a substantial amount of throttle being used. I have a set of 265/70-16's about to go on and am worried it wont be able to stay at highway speed around here. Aside from that it seems to be ok. I still get an avg 29 mpg and was getting 34 on the highway to the airport.



Mass-hole - what was the ultimate solution (or are you still having this problem)? I'm experiencing similar symptoms: puff of black smoke at tip-in, no smoke under normal-to-heavy acceleration, smoke again (expected) at WOT.

Thanks,

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:34 am 
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valoflyby wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
Yeti wrote:
Try to read the psi with maf unplugged if the turbo rise , the problem for me is the maf , maf reading always change with the rpm and load and at full WOT you can see 156 and more g/s , but if your maf is dead you have a false reading on the g/s and poor engine performance


Yeti, I tried unplugging the maf with no effect.

I really havent driven it much since it's the wifes daily and she doesnt want to drive my aircraft carrier of a truck. I did finally get to drive it the last two days since i had to park overnight at the airport and I noticed a few things:

- When driving in traffic and having to make quick jabs at the throttle while maneuvering, I would get a decent delay in throttle response along with a big puff of black soot before the turbo would kick in and get me moving. Once the turbo gets going the soot goes away, unless i am at WOT where I get a constant stream of soot.

- When stepping on the gas leaving a stop light I would roll into the throttle and get very little oomph so I would over compensate to get moving. After a few seconds, the turbo would get going and the jeep takes off like a rocket and I would have to pull back off the throttle to not look like an booty trying to race everyone.

-Last but not least, when I monitor the MAP at idle, it shows a vacuum. When I was back in massachusetts it always showed 2-3 psi positive pressure. I dont know if this is just because of the altitude or what.

Basically it feels like it has bad turbo lag like my subaru legacy used to have. This leads me to believe that maybe the turbo vanes are sticky or maybe the vacuum control system is leaky causing slow response. What can you do if the issue is with the turbo itself?

Also the jeep feels pretty weak. It has a hard time climbing some of the passes at highway speeds without a substantial amount of throttle being used. I have a set of 265/70-16's about to go on and am worried it wont be able to stay at highway speed around here. Aside from that it seems to be ok. I still get an avg 29 mpg and was getting 34 on the highway to the airport.



Mass-hole - what was the ultimate solution (or are you still having this problem)? I'm experiencing similar symptoms: puff of black smoke at tip-in, no smoke under normal-to-heavy acceleration, smoke again (expected) at WOT.

Thanks,


Are you tuned? I think GDE's hot tune and possibly some of the DIY tunes will do this no matter what because of how quickly they ramp up and how much fuel they are pushing at full throttle.

The lack of power and boost, which was my biggest concern, was due to limiters in the tune that limit fueling and boost based on ambient pressure. Because I am at 6500' and have 20% less air pressure than sea level, the ECU is cutting back. I believe it cuts the boost back far enough that the AFR gets rich and you start to see excess soot. I was thinking that the soot was a sign that there was something wrong which was causing the lack of power, but it was actually intentional and is built into the factory tuning.

The hesitation I have decided is also related to the altitude. Instead of my manifold pressure starting at 15-16 psi like it used to at sea level, I am starting around 12 psi, so my jeep has to work a little more to hit the boost target that the ECU is looking for. This also gives me a more prominent puff a black smoke since the high altitude makes the turbo take a little longer before the boost matched the fueling. The engine has to run a little rich to get the turbo spooled up so it will be on the dirty side off the line until the turbo starts hitting the boost target.

In your case, it could also be your manifold air temps. There is another limiter in the tune which will dial back boost on excessive air temps. If you are running your A/C in 90-100 degree weather then its definitely possible the boost is being pulled back a bit and causing a slightly rich mixture. The A/C condenser sits right in front of the CAC so the combo of high outside air temps and the A/C heating that air even more before it gets to the CAC means you can get Manifold temps in the 80C+(185F) range. I have seen temps this high myself. At these temps the manifold pressure will be cut like 15%.

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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Did you check your intercooler? Many develop a small crack near the top inlet area that increases over time. I had a slight boost leak at 100k and it has gotten larger over the past 61k miles and we are noticing soot when accelerating now.

I'm going to use a metal epoxy blended with fiberglass flakes to patch my intercooler or take it to a radiator shop that does plastic welding.


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 Post subject: Re: Lots of soot at altitude.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Thanks guys.

I am tuned - GDE Hot. I installed the tune toward the end of winter, but didn't notice the off-idle smoke until recently. My windows are tinted and I suspect that it'd been doing it all-the-while, but I never saw it.

I'm running Torque on my phone and I've never seen more than 18psi, so I'll be checking for cracks at the intercooler. I'm at ~350' elevation, so I would have expected a bit more.

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TWO Wheelers: 06 Triumph 675, 04 BMW R1150RT


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