<le-sigh>... Stalled and wont start. [FIX'd]

crasher · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2015 6:29 pm

Bought this thing a year ago, with about 108K miles on it.
2006 CRD Limited, auto trans.
Carfax documentation, lotsa service records showing oil-changes and annual checkup kind of info.
The mechanic even commented on how clean the underside was.

I had the timing belt and water pump replaced as a condition of sale.
The Liberty has been great, it's clean, I'm happy with it.
I have almost 113K miles on it now.

I'm coming home from a shopping trip, back into the driveway, and it comes to an abrupt stop, engine and vehicle.
No disturbing noises, just *stop*.

I step on the brake, put the autotrans into PARK, and crank the starter.
Starter spins normally, no sounds resembling marbles in a blender, it just spins normally and the diesel wont start.

The tank is full, the temp was normal, no lights were on prior to the stop, no magic smoke coming out of anywhere.
I'm puzzled.

350K miles on the '97 diesel RAM, no probs like this, so I'm out of practice with vehicle suddenly having issues.
No issues with the Liberty that I can point to in hindsight and think 'I shoulda fixed XYZ last week...'.

The only thing I've done to it in 1,000 miles besides having it inspected and checking the oil kinda stuff is I replaced the airbox to turbo inlet hose, CCV puck on the valve cover, and the hose connecting the puck to the inlet hose a few days ago.
I figured that I'd just do it all since the puck was showing an oilstain.
The turbo shaft felt fine when I replaced the inlet hose, CAC hoses still look good, I wiped a little oil out of them when I did my WEEKS Phase-1.

The Weeks Phase-1 kit went in around the 1st of the year, and we've been humming along happily since.
I haven't even had time to install the WEEKS Phase-2 kit yet.

Hints on where to begin looking for issues?

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2015 6:58 pm

crasher wrote:

Bought this thing a year ago, with about 108K miles on it.
2006 CRD Limited, auto trans.
Carfax documentation, lotsa service records showing oil-changes and annual checkup kind of info.
The mechanic even commented on how clean the underside was.

I had the timing belt and water pump replaced as a condition of sale.
The Liberty has been great, it's clean, I'm happy with it.
I have almost 113K miles on it now.

I'm coming home from a shopping trip, back into the driveway, and it comes to an abrupt stop, engine and vehicle.
No disturbing noises, just *stop*.

I step on the brake, put the autotrans into PARK, and crank the starter.
Starter spins normally, no sounds resembling marbles in a blender, it just spins normally and the diesel wont start.

The tank is full, the temp was normal, no lights were on prior to the stop, no magic smoke coming out of anywhere.
I'm puzzled.

350K miles on the '97 diesel RAM, no probs like this, so I'm out of practice with vehicle suddenly having issues.
No issues with the Liberty that I can point to in hindsight and think 'I shoulda fixed XYZ last week...'.

The only thing I've done to it in 1,000 miles besides having it inspected and checking the oil kinda stuff is I replaced the airbox to turbo inlet hose, CCV puck on the valve cover, and the hose connecting the puck to the inlet hose a few days ago.
I figured that I'd just do it all since the puck was showing an oilstain.
The turbo shaft felt fine when I replaced the inlet hose, CAC hoses still look good, I wiped a little oil out of them when I did my WEEKS Phase-1.

The Weeks Phase-1 kit went in around the 1st of the year, and we've been humming along happily since.
I haven't even had time to install the WEEKS Phase-2 kit yet.

Hints on where to begin looking for issues?

Sounds like the Crank Position Sensor. This has a tendency to go out suddenly, and usually when it's hot.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 1:07 am

Yeah, I agree, and if it is the crank sensor, make sure the heat shield is there. They are a pain to reinstall, and so shops, and owners get tempted to NOT reinstall them.

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 4:24 am

Have you primed the fuel filter head?
Fuel starvation through air in the system or a clogged fuel filter gives you this problem without codes.
Also swap over the ASD Relay under the hood with an identical one near it...if these go bad then the jeep will do an Auto Shut Down.

Bear in mind that the 2006 LHD CRD has a known problem that the wire harness can be trapped behind the Fuel Filter Head mounting bracket causing a short of several wires to chassis....worth removing mounting bracket and have a good look at the wiring there to see if there is any damage. :shock:

dan86 · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 5:01 am

Could also be the cam sensor. Happened to me not so long ago.

2003 KJ Liberty 2.5 CRD

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 8:16 am

All the suggestions are very relevant. Any of them will cause the motor to die and /or not to start.
> Pump up the fuel head on the filter and make sure it is hard and then try to start. If it does, you got a leak in the fuel system allowing air to become ingested into the fuel system. Could be a loose clamp, bad hose, etc. If this is the case, best cure is to install an in-tank fuel pump. Instructions are on this forum, just do a search!
> Crank sensor will cut engine off and not allow a restart. They are known to do this and will do it without setting any DTC's. You can buy a new one from an auto parts store, got mine at AutoZone...
> Cam sensor same as crank sensor...
let us known what you end up finding as the problem...

crasher · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 2:06 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

All the suggestions are very relevant. Any of them will cause the motor to die and /or not to start.
> Pump up the fuel head on the filter and make sure it is hard and then try to start. If it does, you got a leak in the fuel system allowing air to become ingested into the fuel system. Could be a loose clamp, bad hose, etc. If this is the case, best cure is to install an in-tank fuel pump. Instructions are on this forum, just do a search!
> Crank sensor will cut engine off and not allow a restart. They are known to do this and will do it without setting any DTC's. You can buy a new one from an auto parts store, got mine at AutoZone...
> Cam sensor same as crank sensor...
let us known what you end up finding as the problem...

No start after overnight cold temps in the 50*F range.
Ambient temp was only 77*F when it quit, and I'd only put on about 4 miles from a start when it quit.

Fuel filter button pumps up hard after the 2nd push, didn't make any difference, no start after several attempts.

I hit the local Napa for the part, approx $55 plus shipping to store, no NAPAs on his tie-line had it within about a 150 mile radius. So I ordered it for Tuesday.
Autozone and other discount supply places don't stock it either and the prices were in the $85-100 range plus shipping and had longer delays.

Local Dodge/Heap dealers didn't have it either.

So, I spent Saturday afternoon with the Heap at the bottom of the driveway (where it quit while backing up the drive into the garage) pulling the sensor out from the top.
PITA getting it to pull out of the block, and once it was out I saw there was indeed no obstruction holding it in except that the red O-ring was seriously hard. I'm thinking that the O-ring kind of welds itself to the block due to heat and just kinda curing in place.
That plug was a PITA to separate, too.
I was generally losing patience, but my BIL saved the day and got 'er done.

I haven't tested the unit with heat, yet, I'm digging thru the workbench trying to figure out where I last saw that heat-gun.

Thanks to all so far, we'll see if that was actually the issue or not, soon.

May you all have a peaceful Memorial day with your families.
My respects to all those who qualify for Memorial Day.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 7:06 pm

Check also the fuse box in the engine, the ASD relay will kill the engine if it fails. Swap relays around, any with the same number of pins are acceptable options. The fan relays are popular choices to swap with the ASD.

If the computer doesn't know where the engine is, it can't safely inject fuel, so will cut fuel and stall the engine. But the ASD is the automatic shut down relay that does the same thing, when commanded by the computer (or if it dies).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 9:44 pm

crasher wrote:

So, I spent Saturday afternoon with the Heap at the bottom of the driveway (where it quit while backing up the drive into the garage) pulling the sensor out from the top.

FYI, it is much easier to R&R the crank sensor from underneath the motor if you can jack it up or get the front tires on ramps.... :wink:

crasher · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2015 6:36 pm

Before I pulled the sensor, I swapped the ASD relay with the low-fan relay below it, but it was still a no-go so I pulled the sensor on Saturday.
While I was taking stuff out, and having time on me hands, I installed the rest of the Weeks stage 2 kit.
I'd done the coolant line delete phase already, I'd just never gotten around to capping the EGR line at the exhaust manifold.
Pulling the coolant reservoir put both the sensor and the exhaust manifold right there in front of me.

Got the sensor Wednesday late, put it in, and dodged thunderstorms working on the reassembly. Thursday put the rest of it back together,
crankcrankcrank several times a minute apart,
and no start.

Re-primed the fuel head and bled it to make sure it wasn't sucking air.
crankcrankcrank
a few more times, and my 3 year old Mexican Red-Top decided it'd had enough.

Searched the web for current battery suggestions and found out that Costco quit selling the Kirkland 900 CCA batteries I loved.
Searched here, Weeks mentioned the group 65 950 CCA battery (the picture shows 950 CCA, the description says 930 CCA) and the battery tray mod.
The battery is now $265 out the door, same as the less robust group 34.
OK, we do all that.

crankcrankcrankcrank.
crap

Check the fuse box again to move another relay or two, and noticed a 15A ASD fuse.
<<smacks forehead>>
Pull the 15A ASD fuse.
<<smacks forehead again>>
Replace 15A ASD fuse with an actual good one as the burned one in there is just embarrassing.

cra-start/purr......

No clue when the fuse went out.
No clue WHY the fuse went out.
And I still haven't found my heat gun to test the crank sensor, I'm just glad I didn't have to pull it apart again to stuff a cam sensor in, too.

Bonus points are that I got my Weeks stage 2 finished finally, AND a new sensor, AND discovered my battery was about to turn to toast, all in my driveway with no midnight phone calls, or tow bill, and learned more about what kinds of stuff make these little jewels work.
Now if I could just figure out that ASD fuse thing.....
And when my dashboard will stop flashing 'Lo Coolant' since the reservoir is full to the correct temp marking.Fixed. I had to wiggle the wire under there.

Gentleman, I thank you all for every moment of thought, and every single line of text posted on my behalf.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2015 9:49 pm

Glad it is running!

On the lo coolant light... The sensor on the bottom of the water bottle is plugged in, right? That is an easy one to forget when putting things back together. Otherwise, it may need a cleaning or a replacement.

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

CGman · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2015 11:43 pm

Take your story and switch around the time line 180 degrees ( ASD relay and fuse checked and replaced first; change the failed crank sensor last) and it's my story from a year ago.

It's ALWAYS the last thing you check...unless you've been getting LOST Liberty CRD tech help!! :SOMBRERO:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2015 11:57 pm

CGman wrote:

It's ALWAYS the last thing you check...unless you've been getting LOST Liberty CRD tech help!! :SOMBRERO:

Of course it is the last thing you check... Do you keep fixing something after you found the problem? :goink:

CGman · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 2:34 pm

CGman wrote:

Take your story and switch around the time line 180 degrees ( ASD relay and fuse checked and replaced first; change the failed crank sensor last) and it's my story from a year ago.

It's ALWAYS the last thing you check...unless you've been getting LOST Liberty CRD tech help!! :SOMBRERO:

Referring to the scenario where you have 3 things to check. ..

Watch it Gman or I'll lower my tbelt customer satisfaction rating to a 4.5... :-)r

And PS - I guess I never stop looking, i try to guess was the next CRD surprise will be.

crasher · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 6:38 pm

Is there a particular reason that the ASD fuse (15A) blew?

I mean, is there some preventative maintenance I ought be doing for this particular issue?

I have the new fuel head, and the wire loom running behind it is unscarred, so I'm pretty sure thats not it.

What/where else is a likely cause for the fuse to blow, if there was a particular trouble spot?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 7:00 pm

Sometimes fuses just blow.
Better to pop a fuse than blow a whole module.

In my case, when I popped my ASD fuse, it was because I was messing around with wiring and shorted something out.

<le-sigh>... Stalled and wont start. [FIX'd]

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