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No Crank, No Start, No Codes
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82332		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  samwash [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  No Crank, No Start, No Codes
I need some help on a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. The engine wont crank. That lead me to the starter relay. Took the relay out and jumped the relay and the engine would crank but will not start. While I had the relay out I figured I would see if I was getting signal from the key switch to activate the relay. Oddly enough I come to find out that I was getting signal. This lead me to the ground side of the relay which with the key on has 3.4 volts, which I guess is a good reason why the relay isn't activating. If I pull the asd relay I loose the 3.4 volts at the ground side of the relay. The only other place so far that I found this 3.4 volts so is at the fcv. The only other thing I know of that isn't working is the fuel gauge. My question is do I have a short somewhere or is this possibly an ecu problem. When this key is on I have a CEL, oil light, little red LED, and low fuel. Any help is much appreciated, Thanks in advance.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
What's the battery voltage?
Are you still using the original optima red top battery?
You might want to have the battery tested just to rule that out.

Also, the red light dot on the instrument cluster, does it stay lit or does it eventually turn off?
If it stays lit that would indicate a problem with the ASD fuse/relay or the security key module.
Author:  samwash [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
The battery voltage is good. It does not have an optima battery. But it less than 2 months old and has comparable cca's.

The red light does stay lit. And I could possibly have security issue. Would it throw a code if it did???? And would the security issue explain the 3.4 volt on the ground side od the starter relay???
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Not sure about throwing a code.
If it does it might be a specific code that your code reader cannot see.
The red dot indicates a SKIM problem.
Check the ASD fuse in the fuse box under the hood.
Swap the ASD relay with another one that you know is good.
Then see if the red light will go out.
If not, then try a ECM reset by removing the + connection from the battery, turning the ignition key all the way to ON, and leave the drivers side door open all for about 10 minutes. Then remove the key, reconnect the battery and see what what happens.
If that doesn't fix it then the problem is with the SKIM or your ignition key programming.

I dont know exactly what the voltages are supposed to be. That 3.4 volts you measured could be normal, could be related to the SKIM, or could be a problem with your voltmeter.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Now that I have thought more about it, I suspect that the 3.4 volts is normal.
Considering that everything is controlled by the ECU I believe that the 3.4 volts is the base reference voltage for the transistor(s) in the ECU.
Just be careful doing your voltage checks. I'd hate for you to burn out a transistor.
Author:  samwash [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
The asd fuse and relay both check out good. I am checking all my powers and grounds with a power probe so it is probably giving me accurate voltage readings (never gave me problems in the past). When checking the asd fuse and relay there was never a change in the red indicator. I had the battery unhooked for a little longer than 2 days when I was working on it last week and that didn't seem to change anything. I also put a charger on the battery and turned the key to the on position for a couple hours, I thought I read somewhere that reset the skim system.

So I am going to figure this thing does have a skim problem. When the skim sees the wrong key (or doesn't pick up the right key) the ecm must send the 3.4 volts to the ground side of the starter relay so the vehicle won't crank, and obviously doesn't let the injectors fire if you jump the relay. If someone can confirm or deny this that would be great, but I'm figuring this thing is going to be dealership bound to get some new keys. Thanks for the help I really appreciate it the info
Author:  tregrrr [ Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
I had a similar no start yesterday, it turns out the shift select lever arm had popped off of the transmission. The only indication from inside the vehicle was a marginally lighter resistance on the shifter handle. popped it back on and started right up. Might be worthwhile to stick your head under the drivers side floorboard and see if the tranny cable is just hanging off the side.
Author:  gmctd [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
DCJ FSM's, downloadable, free
- http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
Author:  ebbnflow [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
When I have tried to start my jeep with a NON chipped key (used as a hide a key in case of lockout), the engine will start and run for 2-3 seconds and then it will stop. If your jeep will not crank at all, then it is more than a skim issue.
Author:  samwash [ Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Haven't been on in a while but here is an update. Had the jeep at the dealer and had a new key programmed to the jeep and it still doesn't start. So it is back to the drawing board since the dealer said it would be 4 weeks til they could look at it :roll:. It did throw a bunch of codes for all the glow plugs. I don't know them off hand but they were circuit lows for all 4. Will give an update with any new symptoms or if it is fixed. But with the skim problems ruled out and the red led staying lit its not looking like it is going to give up easy.
Author:  samwash [ Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Well after getting the Jeep home and into the garage, I educated myself with it a little more. My new suspect for the problem is the Front control Module or the wiring going to and from it. I tore the battery tray out of it and removed the module and the odd part to me was the module had 2 places for the wiring harness to plug in but the jeep only had one plug coming out of the harness to plug into it. I've never seen anything like the before. The spot on the module for the other plug had corrosion on the contacts and I'm wondering if it isn't even the correct module for the jeep.
Author:  gmctd [ Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
It's correct - usually it has some greasy insulating stuff mushed in the second connector

If it absolutely won't crank from the key, that can be the low-battery safety circuit - won't let the KJ crank with low battery voltage, so you don't get out somewhere with a dead battery and require a tow-back -all modern ECM-controlled engine systems have that feature

Have someone key START while you're measuring battery voltage directly across the battery-cable terminals, not the battery posts - that voltage should not drop below 12.6v - if it does drop, measure directly across the battery posts, see if it drops there

Could also be something simple as the NEUTRAL SAFETY switch is gummy\oxidized

DCJ FSM's, downloadable
- http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
If the chip in the key does not make a connection (handshake) with the skim in the steering column, the BCM will not allow the engine to start. The key and the skim are matched by VIN when new and any replacements must be re-programed by a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealership or a very qualified lock smith who has up to date tools... :roll:
Author:  Billwill [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Swap out the ASD relay with an identical one next to it and also check if the ASD relay is energizing.

If the engine turns over only by jumping the Starter relay (pins 30 and 87) it means that either the ignition switch is faulty or the Actuator pin has broken or one of the interlocks ie. Neutral or Park is not working. Try start it in Neutral instead of Park.

You may have to remove the ignition switch to see if the Actuator pin has broken....lots of information here on how to do so if you do a search. :wink:
Author:  StGru [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
I had the same problem last year. It was the actuator pin. There are videos on youtube on how to replace it. The funny part was that the dealership wanted to replace the entire steering column for $3K. After I refused multiple times, they finally admitted that there does exist a factory kit for replacing the actuator, which was $56.57 on my receipt, plus labor.
Author:  samwash [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
Its not the actuator pin. The starter relay is get signal power from the ignition. The reason it wont crank though is that there is 3.2 volts on the ground side of the relay. however that problem is fixed. I found that the front control module was bad. The old one was full of moisture. Plugged in another front control module and the jeep will start run sometimes but others the security systems stays active and the fuel gauge doesn't work. Today I took the front clip off and found it has damage on the inner from and accident and found some bad spots it the wiring harness but I still cant get this thing started. What a nightmare.
Author:  racertracer [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Crank, No Start, No Codes
did you ever get it to start what was the problem?
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