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The elusive carbo area hatch...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82642		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  The elusive carbo area hatch...
I've asked this question in two other threads now with no response. I'm not sure if there is no clear answer or if nobody likes me anymore :roll:

So here is the question, is there any way to tell if a certain build KJ has the cargo area access hatch to the top of the fuel tank without tearing up the carpet? I don't have a problem tearing up the carpet as I plan on doing it one way or another, but it might be a nice thing for people to know if they are considering a lift pump but don't have the ability or confidence to drop the tank. Perhaps a poll with relevant build information would help?

I personally am going to pull the carpet to check for the hatch, and if it does not exist, I am going to try to cut my own. If this ends up happening, I'll do a full write-up from a to z to help others do the same if they are so inclined. I know it seems like a lot of work to accomplish the same thing as dropping the tank, but if you EVER have to get in there a second time it has paid for itself multiple times over. My fathers truck (MY2000, 2500 Gasser) once went thru a period where it was burning up in-tank pumps and the second time it did it, we cut a hole in the bed and made an access hatch. The pump went out two more times over the course of the next 3 or 4 months and it was Heaven compared to Hell having that hatch to replace it.

What do you guys think?
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
I'm by no means positive but I'm reasonably sure that hatch was discontinued beginning with the 05 model year.
Author:  dirtmover [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
Can't you check from below with a snake camera?
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
OK Ok you made me go outdoors in the N. FL summer humidity to check. What I found:
1. on the 05 and probably 06 the back mat is not glued down; just pop up the plastic floor trim strip at the back and you can feel/look under it. There is no door. To get the mat all the way up would involve undoing the tie down clips bolted to the floor.
2. as is all too common with parts fiche the pages simply get copied from year to year so the access door does show in the 04, 05, and 06 fiche as PN 55360187AA which oddly is described as DOOR, Fuel Fill but listed online as access door.
3. like I said earlier I'm pretty sure the door was discontinued beginning with the 05 model. Yeah I know pretty stupid move but...

Can you find and fit the access door - I have no clue.
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
dirtmover wrote:
Can't you check from below with a snake camera?


Perhaps? I have one at home I can check with after work today. But...

papaindigo wrote:
OK Ok you made me go outdoors in the N. FL summer humidity to check. What I found:
1. on the 05 and probably 06 the back mat is not glued down; just pop up the plastic floor trim strip at the back and you can feel/look under it. There is no door. To get the mat all the way up would involve undoing the tie down clips bolted to the floor.
2. as is all too common with parts fiche the pages simply get copied from year to year so the access door does show in the 04, 05, and 06 fiche as PN 55360187AA which oddly is described as DOOR, Fuel Fill but listed online as access door.
3. like I said earlier I'm pretty sure the door was discontinued beginning with the 05 model. Yeah I know pretty stupid move but...

Can you find and fit the access door - I have no clue.


If you're correct (and you probably are) then I'll start planning out the retrofit. It seems like I've heard of a few Canadian released CRD's that DID have the access door, but I may be mistaken. I probably won't use the OEM fuel door, but will instead fabricate my own so I can size it how I see fit. As I said before, I will do a write-up and may even be able to compile a "package" of components for others who want to do the same, if there is any interest. I'll keep you all updated!
Author:  gmctd [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
it was discontinued for the '05-06 KJ CRD which has no electric in-tank fuel pump
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
gmctd - I'd have to question your post not that I have any hard data. The 05 and later gasser KJs do have an electric in-tank pump. Seems to me it would be incredibly stupid on the assembly line to have to keep track of 2 different rear floor pans - gasser with door and CRD without door. Of course it's equally incredibly stupid to do away with the door on either gasser or CRD as both have a fuel level sending unit in the tank that occasionally needs service which the door makes easy. My personal bet is some "smart" bean counter figured they could save $0.25 per vehicle by doing away with the door and pass future hassles on to mechanics and customers - probably involved auto CAD in the decision process.

I do know enough about DCJ assembly line practices (personal experience with prior year parts on brand new DCJ vehicles) to know that old parts hang around until used up so it would not surprise me if there were some early 05s made with leftover 04 rear floor pans with the door.

Maybe some forum member has an 05 or 06 KJ gasser and can take a look.
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
Update:

Regarding the snake camera, I got it up on top of the tank and there is SOMETHING around the tank plug area but I can't get the camera at enough of an angle to confirm if it is a bend in the sheet metal or a panel. Probably the former :|

papindigo, when you checked for a panel in yours, was there ANYTHING under the carpet? Mine has an indentation where the panel would have been (see below). Is this what yours looks like?

Image
Author:  Auberon [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
That dip would have to be promising for you.
I'm about to go through this same approach with the bore scope.
Mine is about Sept 06 but it is an Export unit so that changes everything. The in- tank pump would be really easy.....if.
If I see that when I scope it out I'll be scratching some / pin probing round the body deadening perimeter.
Good luck to you.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
I saw the "ribbed" sound deadening material that's in your picture but did not notice a dip although it certainly could be there.
Author:  Squeeto [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
APC9199 wrote:
I've asked this question in two other threads now with no response. I'm not sure if there is no clear answer or if nobody likes me anymore :roll:


I saw your post; I just didn't want to give you an answer unless I knew it was 100% correct.

There is a glued down mat for sound deadening that would probably make a gooey mess if you were to cut through it and no easy way to know if there is a hatch under it. The underside has the thick rust coating spray.

When I did my lift pump (years ago now) I thought about cutting a hatch but decided that for the few times I would ever need in, it would be unnecessary. Also I don't want any exhaust gas seeping up through the hatch. With the serrated edge to the existing sound mat, it would be hard to seal.
Author:  Auberon [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
I am amazed that a dip cannot be seen in those lines falling away from the original floor pan. They get lighter in colour in an almost round (except the back is docked) pattern that is the right shape and place. I would never suggest scraping anything away without some preliminary investigation. Its about knowing how.....like using those hail damage detectors (the better ones).

That looks to me like a relief map of the Himalayas to me that something is there and warrants further judicious investigation.
I'd set a relative level (datum) at the original floor pan insulation level and every 5 mm probe gently with a needle. Gee, even a sewing needle would do in a pinch or a 30 G hypo needle.

Grid it off in a 5 mm (1/4 ") graph paper and probe with acupuncture needles or a pin - it doesn't mean you have to scratch it to pieces. I always have acupuncture needles on hand for back-probing electrics. The insulation will close over in time as it is only a few microns....method should be totally non destructive.
However, each to their own.
I will be looking into it for certain given that pic for my own reasons. You never know your luck or lack thereof.
Author:  Squeeto [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
The dip could just be contour bends added for strength.
Author:  Auberon [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elusive carbo area hatch...
Who cares?
Perish being positive.
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