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| Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82686 |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Long time lurker, first time poster - I have a 05 CRD Sport I bought new. 140k miles. Performed EHM about 3 years ago - SAMCO Turbo Hoses after a hose failure several years ago. Air filter recently cleaned and reoiled per K&N Specs. Starting out and accelerating causes LARGE clouds of black smoke. There is a feeling of restriction in the engine until it blasts out the smoke, then engine accelerates relatively normally to highway speeds. Acceleration from stop is fairly poor. Fuel economy is in the low 20's. I just pulled off the turbo intake and the impeller shaft is solid and the blades spin very smoothly with no play noticed. What next? Thanks! |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Timing belt job been done I hope. Check variable vane actuator rod for movement (per GDE - you can check the vane functionality at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane movement.). Check vacuum reservoir solenoid see bypass check at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70602&p=757348&hilit=boost+solenoid#p757348 . Is MAP sensor clean? Check for loose Samco hose clamps. IMHO ditch K&N filter is favor of good paper one that filters better and breaths fine. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Timing belt/waterpump work has been done. Is that a threaded rod coming out of the bottom of the vacuum actuator? I put my fingers lightly on it while disconnecting the vacuum hose from the top of the acutator and could discern no movement while the jeep was idling. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Checked the vacuum reservoir solenoid according to the instructions and it seemed to help. After things cool off a bit, I will check to see if the vacuum actuator rod moves. Appreciate your help! |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Checked for movement of the vacuum rod since switching the vacuum hoses per the test. No movement of the rod. Is the rod a gold colored, threaded rod? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Don't know about color but it is threaded. Go to http://www.idparts.com/garrett-turbocha ... -2823.html and click on the picture to enlarge it. The rod in question is the one coming out of the actuator housing with the green sticker. If it's not moving then it sounds like your turbo vanes are stuck or sticking. You can try an "Italian" tuneup - engine at operating temp do a few full throttle acceleration runs up a modest slope which will produce large clouds of smoke but may free up the vanes. If not ask for forum input on other vane cleaning methods. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
After doing some research about turbos last night and this morning, I agree that my vanes must be stuck in the open position. I tried the Italian tune up yesterday but I will try it again with a warmer engine and on a grade to see if that helps. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
With a cool engine, disconnect the vacuum line to the turbo actuator and spray the actuator rod and linkage with some good quality penetrating oil like PB Blaster and then move the actuator rod / vanes up and down and try and free them up. Some on this forum have had success freeing up sticking linkage using this method.  Good luck, and keep up posted as to the outcome... 
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Thanks for the inuput - I'll give it a try and see how it works. http://www.oilem.com/turbo-cleaning-and-turbo-cleaners/ Found this article out of the UK and thought it was interesting. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Comments: 1. the CRD turbo does not have a waste gate for whatever that's worth. 2. quality oil and timely oil and oil filter changes are good for a host of things. 3. not sure how much the EHM helps (be careful of this mod depending on where you live as if the end freezes shut excess pressure builds in the crank case and has been known to blow rear main seal which requires dropping tranny to replace). I've said it before but venting crankcase pressure to the intake has been accepted internal combustion engine practice since the late 1960s. If I had to guess I'd say it's the use of an EGR to recycle exhaust gas to the intake that's the real cause of the underlying "soot" problem. 4. consider a) adding one of the free ECU tunes that deletes the EGR or b) my preference, dump the EHM and get a GDE tune 5. driving suggestions in article would help. I have "heard" of using oven cleaner to get the "soot" off the vanes but am not sure how it's applied. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
I'd love to get a GDE tune and turbo but I'm running on a very slim budget. I have been going through all the options trying to find the real cause so if I have to spend money, it is spent on exactly what is wrong, not a big part replacement scheme until it works. The vacuum rod does not budge after applying penetrating oil - not a bit of movement - so I conclude that the vanes are hard stuck in place. I have been researching the oven cleaner option and have found some information in a TDI forum. I'm debating taking the turbo out an cleaning it myself or talking to my local wrench who is pretty straight and reasonable and seeing what he would charge to get it up and running again. |
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| Author: | joelukex4 [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
BadgerCRD Where are you from? Wisconsin? I like the information on the turbo cleaners, unfortunately it seems they are only available in Europe. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
East Central Wisconsin. These engines are a lot more common in the UK and Europe and it looks like there is a lot more information and accessories available there. Going to have a conversation with my Wrench today and see what he has to allow about cleaning up that turbo. |
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| Author: | ShaqDiesel [ Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
BadgerCRD wrote: I'd love to get a GDE tune and turbo but I'm running on a very slim budget. I have been going through all the options trying to find the real cause so if I have to spend money, it is spent on exactly what is wrong, not a big part replacement scheme until it works. The vacuum rod does not budge after applying penetrating oil - not a bit of movement - so I conclude that the vanes are hard stuck in place. I have been researching the oven cleaner option and have found some information in a TDI forum. I'm debating taking the turbo out an cleaning it myself or talking to my local wrench who is pretty straight and reasonable and seeing what he would charge to get it up and running again. The GDE Engine Tune will pay for itself in about 15,000 - 20,000 miles, based on mileage improvement alone. Add to that the preventative maintenance of the product (not having soot all over your intake), that makes is very good buy. Another option would be to install the Stage 1 Weeks Kit, which accomplishes the same thing. It is about half the price of the GDE Ecotune. The sooner you start, the sooner you save. |
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| Author: | BadgerCRD [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
Finally got my jeep in to be looked at. They pulled out the turbo and said it was the cleanest turbo they had ever popped open. Everything ran true and was not blocked. Then they started going back through the vacuum system and replaced a solenoid - P/N 52109543AA Just like magic, I have my old jeep back. Just ran it 350 miles yesterday, fuel economy is up about 20% and I have power again and no black smoke. Way less than a new turbo. In looking at an Eco-tune - does not having a viscous heater affect the program? Mine snapped off(!!) a couple of years ago and the wrench went to a shorter serpentine and everything works great. I thought I saw a reference to how the viscous heater runs in relation to the program and don't know if not having that signal is going to cause problems. |
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| Author: | TKB4 [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
I have no idea whether or not that would change the suitability of the GDE tune but I have both eco and hot tunes on two different crds and a third with the mass air flow sensor unplugged to keep EGR closed . I do know that GDE could answer your question and they will return your call fairly promptly if you leave a message . I have called them twice over 3 years nd thy answered my questions. I am saving to get the turbo replacement on the third one. |
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| Author: | Mountainman [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
No VH makes no difference with the GDE tune. That's how I have mine (gone) with the GDE tune for years. If you do the GDE tune then I'd ask Keith about the 5v glow plug flash unless the newer version 7V's are holding up much better than the earlier steel ones. I think the 5v is better for cold starts also, but someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong. I know mine have held up for years anyhow. |
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| Author: | 20DDan [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
So what is good fuel economy on these CRD's? Had mine for a month now, it has 200,000km on it and saw I'm averaging 14ltr/100km with all city short trips ans when I took it on the highway for about 30-45min it dropped to 9ltr/100km average. I haven't done the Eco Tune yet but wondering if my mileage is terrible due to other issues I'm unaware of. |
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| Author: | user113 [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
9l/100km is about 30 MPG, which is pretty good for these vehicles. The best I ever got was around 8.6l/100km, and that is with the GDE tune. Of course, there are way too many variables that affect fuel economy (e.g., the fuel itself, terrain, tires, temperature, etc.) but even so, it seems like your fuel consumption is on par of what most on the forum are seeing. It does not suggest any issues at all. |
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| Author: | user113 [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lots of Black Smoke - poor fuel economy |
BadgerCRD wrote: Then they started going back through the vacuum system and replaced a solenoid - P/N 52109543AA Just like magic, I have my old jeep back. Papaindigo nails it again! |
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