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another dead KJ
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82736		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  another dead KJ
on Tuesday i was running errands out onto the Fraser Valley (BC) and took the freeway. Ran the truck at 110 KM/h for over 45 minutes, ran super smooth and purry and had lots of torque.

then i heard a clattering sound (sounded like diesel clatter) for about 3 seconds and then lost power, clouds of black smoke behind me, and then a loud thumping sound from the passenger side of the engine.

pulled over and popped the hood. engine was running at idle RPM's but had a LOUD thumping sound mixed in with thenormal engine noise. .

got escorted safely off the freeway by a lovely RCMP girl, and pulled into the gas station.

limped the truck hjome at about 20km's an hour on the back roads. Could NOT go past 60 km, and left huge amounts of smoke behind be. Engine thumped and clattered the whole way.

thoughts?

timing belt slip? (fairly new GATES belt by PO)

broken rockers? (replaced by PO several years ago)

broken glow plug?

huge chunk of carbon bouncing around?

water in fuel?

i have no idea whats going on with this engine, and can't afford the several thousand $$$ the diesel shops want to diagnose it
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Based on the reference to RCMP I presume you are in Canada so it's a left hand drive CRD and the noise in on the turbo side of the engine. Very first thing DO NOT CRANK IT UP. Check your oil level. Then pull the CAC hose off the turbo, remove the air filter box to turbo hose, grasp the turbo impeller and wiggle it. If the oil is low and the turbo impeller has more than the slightest fore/aft movement and/or barely perceptible side to side movement the turbo is blown. Report back.
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
I'll be right back.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Yup, it does sound like a failed turbo.

Check your oil level absolutely, and report back what you find with that, as well as the two big fat air hoses - one from the turbo to the intercooler, the other on the driver's side to the intake. The failure of either of these hoses can lead to some of the sounds you are describing, but it strongly sounds like a turbo shaft failure.

If you need more advanced technical assistance, I am the travelling mechanic that specializes in these. I cannot guarantee to be cheap, but it WILL be done right the first time, and I'm pretty confident in saying that I've taken far more of these apart than any other mechanic in the USA.
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
ok pulled the CAC and airbox hoses (they are in good shape BTW :) ) and checked the turbo for movement. zero side to side wiggle, spins like its a precision instrument. front to back play check (me standing facing the firewall) it has barely any movement.....i would have to say less than 2 sheets of paper thick (if that makes sense).

i also checked all the exhuast tubes and manifold, no holes or cracks. I took off the CAC hoses on the intercooler and capped off one end and pressurized it with my vacumm cleaner blower while the GF sprayed soapy water on the intercooler fins. No holes or leaks there....)



oil (Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40) is at proper level. Using a WIX filter . oil/filter changed about 1000 KM ago.

now the bad news....i DID drive the rig home last tuesday, slowly, and i kept the rpms and speed at a point where there was very little clattering .........but the damage may have been done on that 35 km drive home....... :(


another note: the thumping/booming sounds like its from the EGR area.....when i plugged the MAF sensor back in the thumping / booming sound is a lot less, but still LOUD.

second note: when i had both CAC hoses off, i checked the FCV, its very clean zero crap on the flap. Using a small mirror and ans light i looked up the tube past the FCV flap and it looks clean too. (as far as i could see)

Also the fuel filter (BALDWIN heavy duty) is less than 300km's old, and there is no air in the system. (i purge it daily).
Author:  weeks101 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Bushman5 wrote:
second note: when i had both CAC hoses off, i checked the FCV, its very clean zero crap on the flap. Using a small mirror and ans light i looked up the tube past the FCV flap and it looks clean too. (as far as i could see)

Driver's side or passenger's side? I would suggest inspecting the exhaust-side EGR tube that runs from the exhaust manifold (on the passenger side) to the EGR valve (on the driver's side).
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
i checked the FCV on the drivers side.

will be pulling the EGR and cooler this weekend.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Check the resistance of the glow plugs at the connector, 1 to 4.

If the FCV is present and intact, and the turbo is OK, I suspect a failed glow plug which then jammed a valve, then caused valve to piston badness. Alternate; it may be simple failure of one or more rockers.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Did you hear an exhaust leak or see any signs of exhaust soot on the passenger side of the motor? If so, you may have blew the exhaust pipe going to the EGR valve off of the exhaust manifold. If this happens, it makes a lot of noise and puts out a lot of black smoke due to loss of turbo boost... :roll:
This exact thing happened to mine last fall. It is was amazing that such a small exhaust leak has such a huge affect on the running of the motor.... :shock:
Keep us posted as to what you find!
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
^ will check that next and report back.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
It does seem like more of an exhaust leaking issue, and if the exhaust tubing blew or rotted out and failed, then yes, you would be losing all your boost - which will result in much clattering and black smoke.

The good news: Since you say that the oil is at the proper level, then most likely there has not been any significant damage to the bottom end. This is a very good thing. It still may be a rocker failure, which can happen quite suddenly and will certainly make combustion sound very poor.

Before you go messing with the glow plugs - did the engine sound otherwise normal at idle, smooth except for the deep rumble sound? Poor rockers or damaged valves are generally indicated by a very uneven idle. My computer is being stupid at the moment or I would have a link for you to a video. Be back shortly.
Author:  rankom [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
possibly injector stuck open , ? fuel knock over fuel black smoke ,, noise like rod bearing gone , check your injectors !!!!!
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
This is (90% sure) a broken rocker/lifter.
Author:  rankom [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
90% injector problem ...
Author:  racertracer [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Number 1. Are you using the original ceramic glow plugs.

Number 2. No one knows what happened to the engine.... all answers are assumptions. We will not know until the engine is apart.

Sounds like rockers to me.

Stop running the engine.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Some videos for your comparison. Both of these CRDs had bad rockers, and the low sound in the first video isn't wind rumble, it is the "lumpy" idle from the poor airflow and poor combustion.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-Before.mp4

The second video, notice how the sound is not consistent, comes and goes? This is poor combustion tapping from the improper airflow, again from broken rockers. IIRC, the rockers on this were broken on the intake side.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-bad-rockers.mp4
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
rankom wrote:
90% injector problem ...


Rocker failure due to excessive soot load and/or valve impact is a known and common problem. Failure of the ceramic glow plugs is also a known issue. Injectors can fail, but not with the regularity of the rockers or the glow plugs. My money is on either some sort of rocker failure or an exhaust failure. If it is neither of these, then I'd start looking elsewhere. You can diagnose rocker failure a couple of ways without taking the engine down, and I would try that before trying anything else. I try to do the easy things first; hence my advise to check the glow plug resistance (an easy check with a VOM and very quick.) If it is not GPs so much the better, then check airflow.

L
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
will be doing some testing next weekend when the old man comes into town. He has been a mechanic for decades, and although not a diesel mech, he knows a lot.

one question (and i've searched here for the answer already but no avial....) is how do i SAFELY bleed off the pressure in the fuel rails and injectors, prior to removing?
Author:  olypopper [ Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Just throw a rag over the easiest connection you can access. With a good wrench, loosen that fitting. Since its a common rail system you instantly dropped rail pressure to all injectors. This is the least thing to be concerned with, imho. Make certain your dad learns how different these engines are so non familiarity type mistakes can be avoided.
Author:  Bushman5 [ Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: another dead KJ
Thanks Oly, i tossed a big thick old beach towel over the common rail and cracked the nut tonight. Bit of a whoosh adn the towel got soaked in sweet smelling diesel.


pulling the injectors next weekend, will take them for flow testing and inspection .

NOTE: RE: soot on passenger side of exhaust etc: did NOT see any soot on the passenger or drivers side of the rig today......looked carefully, ran swabs over everything, no soot.
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