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Insurance for intercooler?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8285		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  MudTrac [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Insurance for intercooler?
Well being I have a great dodge dealer here in town that does sprinter work and has a freightliner dealer with it I figured that they would take a look at the oil issue and have somehting to say, and they did. This was after 4 diesel techs looked at it a jeep guy, 2 freightliner guys and a cummings guy. Here is my reward for bringing it in, a nice typed up letter saying it was fine, so if anythign happens due to it, Im sure I'll have somehting to fall back on. Somthing that also bothered me was that the hose clamp i installed wasn't "correct" I guess thats cause it didnt have a DC star on it... Oh well got a free one to keep in the glove box just in case.

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Author:  LibertyCRD [ Mon May 08, 2006 2:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I am getting close to 25,000 miles on my CRD now. I've run #2 diesel of questionable quality through it the entire time I've owned it. Been using 5W40 synthetic oil, servicing it regularly. And I took my intercooler hose off last week and found some oil in there but nothing major. Yes it was black in spots as I looked into the hose, but it was also orange in spots where there was no oil and the hose was clean. All in all there was certainly oil making its way into the intercooler...but it definitely was not running out of the hose when I pulled it off like some guys on here will lead you to believe. In fact, mine didn't scare me at all. Yes I suppose in a perfect world there would be no oil at all in that hose...but it's not that bad right now, ULSD fuel will make it better later this year, and I have a 100,000 mile warranty on the engine. So am I going to waste hundreds of dollars on a ProVent filter? Nope..don't think so. Old Navy's filter might go on my Jeep when it comes out if the price is right. But I'm not going to join the oil-in-intercooler-fear group. I think these engines are going to be OK.
Author:  tired_old_dave [ Mon May 08, 2006 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
MudTrac, thanks for the invoice. If you saw my picture at edmunds, then you know I must be one of those yelling the sky is falling. Some have a little oil and some have a lot more oil. 15months of driving, switched from 0w40 at 18k and been on 5w40 without my home made catch can. Blow by/crankcase vapors are caused by what? Isn't it also possible that all factory ccv's are not built the same and holding up the same? Exhaust and intake open and breathes and runs good. Are we driving too fast? Asphaltines from mexican crude in our tx diesel causing my sludge to stay in the hoses and intercooler? I don't know, but I wish I was up to speed when I first saw an oily hose last year, yes at the e forum.
Author:  Goglio704 [ Mon May 08, 2006 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Liberty CRD,

How is ULSD going to help the oil in the intercooler situation? I am very happy you have had so many trouble free miles on your CRD. My miles have also been trouble free, but I have been proactive about addressing potential problems. At 2100 miles my inlet and outlet hoses were more black inside than orange. I changed mine to an open crankcase vent at that point. You seem like you doubt those of us who have this problem. I'm happy yours doesn't, at least not as bad. I have wondered how much this problem might subside after the rings seat well. I wish you, and all of us, many more trouble free miles. Did you buy the extended warranty? My 05 only has 70k engine warranty. I also think these engines are going to be O.K.

P.S. I hope you find some fuel that is not of questionable quality, because that could catch up to you after the 100k warranty.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon May 08, 2006 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't have a crd KJ but I'm a diesel mech for the army and you really should not have any oil present in the aftercooler.If you do it's the beginning's of a major turbo issue from what I have dealt with.The detriot deisel's I work with seem to be prone to turbo failure when you do not let the turbo cool down before shutting down,which is common in the military because the operators don't care about the trucks because they don't have to pay for the repairs and don't have to work when there truck goes down.Plus the only way oil can get into the intercooler is from the turbo bearings,sounds like you have some bad bearing seals.I'd keep my eye on your exhaust,when you start blowing major oil you just killed your engine,hope the warrenty is really worth a darn.This is just my 2 cents on the subject and I personnally would be very worried.
Author:  Goglio704 [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
The turbo bearings are not the "only" way to get oil in the intercooler. The crankcase vent on these engines feeds to the suction side of the turbo. Check your facts before you post absolute terms like "only." How much in the way of emissions controls do army vehicles have anyway? I always thought they were exempt?
Author:  spencevans [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's OK to have some oil in the air intake but the sorce of the oil could be the biggest concern. My '85 Mitsubishi Turbo Diesel Pickup ran an oil overflow hose from the valve cover to the air intake. So I see no reason why it would be bad. Not a big deal since diesel fuel is already an oil base product. If you were leaking through the seals this would be cause for concern but I doubt that you are. Good Luck.
Author:  retmil46 [ Tue May 09, 2006 1:12 am ]
Post subject: 
LibertyCRD wrote:
Well, I am getting close to 25,000 miles on my CRD now. I've run #2 diesel of questionable quality through it the entire time I've owned it. Been using 5W40 synthetic oil, servicing it regularly. And I took my intercooler hose off last week and found some oil in there but nothing major. Yes it was black in spots as I looked into the hose, but it was also orange in spots where there was no oil and the hose was clean. All in all there was certainly oil making its way into the intercooler...but it definitely was not running out of the hose when I pulled it off like some guys on here will lead you to believe. In fact, mine didn't scare me at all. Yes I suppose in a perfect world there would be no oil at all in that hose...but it's not that bad right now, ULSD fuel will make it better later this year, and I have a 100,000 mile warranty on the engine. So am I going to waste hundreds of dollars on a ProVent filter? Nope..don't think so. Old Navy's filter might go on my Jeep when it comes out if the price is right. But I'm not going to join the oil-in-intercooler-fear group. I think these engines are going to be OK.


"Lead you to believe"? There's no leading or believing about it my friend, I've seen firsthand what the intake system on a CRD looks like after 20K miles of running 0W40 oil. If you'd bothered looking, you could have found pics on this forum and others of how much oil was in the intake system after as few as 10K miles on vehicles that continued to use the factory 0W40 crap that passes for oil.

You gave your own answer as to why yours doesn't look that bad - you switched over to 5W40 oil with a decent API rating. There's an order of magnitude difference in the volatility rating (how much oil will boil off as vapor thru the CCV) between a 0W40 CF rated oil and a 5W40 CI-4 rated oil.

And it's not "hundreds of dollars", try $130. And what you call a fear group contains some experienced diesel owners that have seen this same setup and symptoms before on VW TDI's and know the problems it can lead to.
Author:  MudTrac [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I’ve seen on some Land Rover forums that the TD5 Defenders and Discovery have a similar issue which they seem to think is normal. And while I was at the Dodge dealer they showed me a Sprinter with oil in the intercooler. The diesel techs there seemed to just blow it off as "normal". I am kind of new to the whole TDI range of engines and would not want to lead any one to believe what I have to say. But I do know crap loads about petrol turbo apps and I have talked directly with Garrett about this and several other Garrett dealers and they all say the same thing - "If the oil goes back down the intercooler hose into the inducer on the fresh air side of the turbo then the VNT will start to have issues and eventually fail. This would not be covered by the turbo manufacture and they would bounce the warranty request. I think in the next year or so the few unlucky, that have large amounts of oil in the intercooler inlet, will be faced with Jeep warranty issues. I do know in a 2.0L Japan special with any turbo, if you have oil anywhere besides the inner shaft then you have issues. I’ve worked with turbos with boost pressures ranging from .25Bar to 2Bar. None of these had large amounts of oil being sucked into the fresh air side of things.

On a diesel I wouldn’t be worried about the oil being passed into the intake I’m sure the engine could burn it just fine, I’m only worried about the gummed up turbos. I’m not going to seriously worry about it until the first warranty claim failure, and at that time then I will be changing rigs.
Author:  oldnavy [ Tue May 09, 2006 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
MudTrac wrote:
I’ve seen on some Land Rover forums that the TD5 Defenders and Discovery have a similar issue which they seem to think is normal. And while I was at the Dodge dealer they showed me a Sprinter with oil in the intercooler. The diesel techs there seemed to just blow it off as "normal". I am kind of new to the whole TDI range of engines and would not want to lead any one to believe what I have to say. But I do know crap loads about petrol turbo apps and I have talked directly with Garrett about this and several other Garrett dealers and they all say the same thing - "If the oil goes back down the intercooler hose into the inducer on the fresh air side of the turbo then the VNT will start to have issues and eventually fail. This would not be covered by the turbo manufacture and they would bounce the warranty request. I think in the next year or so the few unlucky, that have large amounts of oil in the intercooler inlet, will be faced with Jeep warranty issues. I do know in a 2.0L Japan special with any turbo, if you have oil anywhere besides the inner shaft then you have issues. I’ve worked with turbos with boost pressures ranging from .25Bar to 2Bar. None of these had large amounts of oil being sucked into the fresh air side of things.

On a diesel I wouldn’t be worried about the oil being passed into the intake I’m sure the engine could burn it just fine, I’m only worried about the gummed up turbos. I’m not going to seriously worry about it until the first warranty claim failure, and at that time then I will be changing rigs.
The VW turbo diesels are plumbed the same way and run the Garrett VNT seen many of the with more then 200k miles and some with 300k miles with never a turbo problem, just problems with intakes needing cleaned and the ocassional head having to be pulled for cleaning behind valves. I had one in my hands that was pulled off a car with 250k miles for low boost but it had a bad vacuum acuatior valve, the thing had a small chuncks out of the vanes and looked to have been almost sandblasted. Put new vacuum actuator on and new vacuum line, reinstalled and it had normal boost. He didn't have the money or the time for new turbo on that visit up from TX, he got it replaced later I believe.
Author:  MudTrac [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Most new style VNTs are about all the same, have sure come a long way since the Shadows which I had. The turbo in that thing was a freaking nightmare.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:18 am ]
Post subject: 
MudTrac wrote:
I’ve seen on some Land Rover forums that the TD5 Defenders and Discovery have a similar issue which they seem to think is normal. And while I was at the Dodge dealer they showed me a Sprinter with oil in the intercooler. The diesel techs there seemed to just blow it off as "normal". I am kind of new to the whole TDI range of engines and would not want to lead any one to believe what I have to say. But I do know crap loads about petrol turbo apps and I have talked directly with Garrett about this and several other Garrett dealers and they all say the same thing - "If the oil goes back down the intercooler hose into the inducer on the fresh air side of the turbo then the VNT will start to have issues and eventually fail. This would not be covered by the turbo manufacture and they would bounce the warranty request. I think in the next year or so the few unlucky, that have large amounts of oil in the intercooler inlet, will be faced with Jeep warranty issues. I do know in a 2.0L Japan special with any turbo, if you have oil anywhere besides the inner shaft then you have issues. I’ve worked with turbos with boost pressures ranging from .25Bar to 2Bar. None of these had large amounts of oil being sucked into the fresh air side of things.

On a diesel I wouldn’t be worried about the oil being passed into the intake I’m sure the engine could burn it just fine, I’m only worried about the gummed up turbos. I’m not going to seriously worry about it until the first warranty claim failure, and at that time then I will be changing rigs.


Funny you should mention this. Have to drop mine at the dealer this afternoon to have oil in the air intake looked at by their CRD tech. I have a Provent and can clearly see that the CCV flow is scrubed clean of oil. Therefore, only one place it can be coming from.... This is already turning into an argument.
Author:  MudTrac [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I dont know what part i mentioned that you are talking about but, if i understand you, your saying you think this is coming from your seals? BC the provent is doing its job 100%? Thats awsome but sucks it might be your seals.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue May 09, 2006 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
MudTrac wrote:
I dont know what part i mentioned that you are talking about but, if i understand you, your saying you think this is coming from your seals? BC the provent is doing its job 100%? Thats awsome but sucks it might be your seals.


Oh Yeah, turbo seals. Twice, I cleaned up the mess, this time I left it for their pleasure. On the Provent, used see-through clear vynal hoses and it is working 100% (no wiggle room for them to argue).
Author:  jinstall [ Tue May 09, 2006 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Must all the isues that you all are having is from the high sulfer fuel. The Germans have been running these engines on the autobahns for some time now and the dealer told me that they have not had any of these issues. I now have 5000 miles on my 6 week old 06 CRD and I drive 90-110mph everyday. It runs better now than the day I picked it up. Nothing leaks, creaks or drips. Well ok the A/C does. I go through 4 wheel drifts with the ESP light sreaming at me and the tires screaming, not a single issue except the drive shaft issue that will be fixed next week. If the engine blew up next week I would not be surprised, I beat on it everytime I get behind the wheel. Maybe you should start driving a little faster or drive with the overdrive turned off. I have yet to see a KJ CRD with a blown motor. Not saying they haven't but I have been looking for them. Oh yeah isn't this the same motor in the Iveco Turbo Daily 8ton delivery van? You should see what those things have to endure.
Author:  MudTrac [ Tue May 09, 2006 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
jinstall wrote:
The Germans have been running these engines on the autobahns for some time now

I dont think that less than 2 years is good enough time to determine the longevity...
Author:  jinstall [ Tue May 09, 2006 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Um try longer than that. The 2.8 CRD has been around longer than 2 years. The Germans know one thing and that is diesel motors.
Author:  retmil46 [ Tue May 09, 2006 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
MudTrac wrote:
I dont know what part i mentioned that you are talking about but, if i understand you, your saying you think this is coming from your seals? BC the provent is doing its job 100%? Thats awsome but sucks it might be your seals.


Oh Yeah, turbo seals. Twice, I cleaned up the mess, this time I left it for their pleasure. On the Provent, used see-through clear vynal hoses and it is working 100% (no wiggle room for them to argue).


Yep, if you're still getting loads of oil in the intake, that's the only other place it could come from.

Apparently you're not the only one. My friend in Texas was diagnosed last week with the same problem, going in Thursday to get the turbo replaced. After that, he's going to install the Provent and watch things from there.

One item of note on his - at about 1000 miles, the intercooler inlet hose blew off the turbo discharge due to a loose clamp, and his wife drove it to work and back home, not realizing what the problem was, other than it ran like a dog. Any opinion on whether or not this might have damaged the seals?
Author:  MudTrac [ Tue May 09, 2006 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
jinstall wrote:
Um try longer than that. The 2.8 CRD has been around longer than 2 years. The Germans know one thing and that is diesel motors.

Actually it isnt.... VM just started the R 428 after redesigning the wet seals on the 2.5L. Now the 2.5 has been around for a little longer. But the 2.8L was a new engine for 2005, it doesnt even come standard with the turbo thats an add-on option from the VM plant.... Unless im just completely a fool and have no idea what im talking about? Please correct me if im wrong with some proof.

And the Sprinter 2.7 isnt the same engine either, its a 5cyl...
Author:  PitViper [ Tue May 09, 2006 1:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think your right

The 2.8 is based off the 2.5 VM and was new for 2005
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