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Assembled engine install: lessons learned
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83160		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Man, what a pain these things are to cram under the hood for the first time!

Hopefully my mistakes will help someone else...

1. You have to use a load leveler, or some way to to tilt the engine significantly front to back. I had that, but I started with the back of the engine down, and that's impossible, because you can't clear the oil pan over the axle tube. Point the front end down!
2. Don't have the fuel rail on the engine! The pressure sensor will hopelessly jam into the firewall. I was trying to avoid as much bending over the hood as possible, and caused myself a LOT more work.
3. Don't install the torque converter onto the engine first thinking it will save time or energy. There just isn't enough room to angle the engine to line up with trans, it's not possible. The engine can only achieve a small angle before it hits the axle tube. stupid stupid stupid... :banghead:
*4. Don't mount up the transmission thinking the engine will slide right on like any normal vehicle. I'm pretty sure the trans has to be slid back a ways. Then again, I had to make room to remove the TC and slide it onto the transmission shaft :banghead: . So, maybe it can stay in place, maybe... If anyone can confirm an install without moving the transmission that would be very helpful!
5. Like Mike who built an entire engine said. Making a mount that fits on the back of the head works but is tough to remove once you get the engine almost in place. I made one that isn't too bad to remove, but right before I get it stuck against the firewall I learned to remove it, and instead use a strap down around the back of the engine (for me this required me to hook a come-along to my chain hoist mount, and first run my load leveler all the way to one end, so that it could hold just the front of the engine). Now that I've done this twice, once failed with the engine jammed against the firewall and axle tube (back of the engine down attempt) the second run was pretty fast, and not too terribly difficult.
6. I left the motor mounts off of the block, this made it pretty easy to line the transmission up, I wouldn't want to try it any other way. They are a bit difficult to install in place, but not too bad.

7. My previous inquiries regarding trying to leave the radiator in place were a pipe dream. I didn't even try it, and it is almost certainly impossible. So, you pretty much have to part the Jeep to install an assembled engine! :-)r

8. Leaving the radiator in, and setting the short block in might save some time, but it certainly won't save your back. It was a pleasure to assemble the engine on a stand. Now for the one with a bad sleeve...

oh, I listened to Mike, and assembled everything up to the timing set and cover, turbo, water manifold thingy. Just skip the fuel rail and it's not bad with the motor mounts off...
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Congratulations on getting that engine back in.
Removal and installation of an engine is always fun :P

I've done a few engine swaps on 4wd trucks and I always left the trans in the chassis.
An automatic trans with transfer case is such a heavy pig that its almost always easier to just leave it in.
Than being said, always, always, ALWAYS leave the torque converter on the transmission!
Years ago I had a friend who tried to install a 460 big block into his F100. He left the TC attached to the flexplate and when he tried to wrestle that engine+TC back into his C-6 trans he completely destroyed the transmission pump and input shaft and torque converter.

But trying to put the engine back in with the transmission still in the chassis is not always easy.
The engine and trans are never BOTH exactly level.
And trying to rock the engine to get the pins lined up with the bellhousing AND line up the motor mounts is easy way to snap an ear off (or crack) the bellhousing.

(Now, a T-5 manual in a Mustang? Back in the day I could R&R one of those without needing a transmission jack :P )
Author:  olypopper [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
This is my experience:

Step 1- Remove the transfer case AND transmission.

Step 2- Remove the grill, bumper and radiator/intercooler assemblies.........AND THE HOOD (this will make your life infinitely easier)

Step 3- Remove the engine.

As they say in the service manuals, assemble in reverse order.

I was able to install a complete engine including turbo, fuel rail (removed the #4 injector line for clearance) and all other accessories with no problems.

I got a lot of help from this site, THANKS!
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
thanks for the comments. Attaching the TC to the engine was the dumbest thing I've done in a while! If I wasn't in such a rush, I would have noticed that you have to clear about 4" of shaft vs 1" of the end of the TC if you try it this way. At least I got a LOT of exercise :banghead:

I guess my only excuse is that I only had one automatic trans & engine swap under my belt, and it was 16 years ago. I was a standard trans nut until I hurt my left knee...
Author:  Mike92104 [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
I left my transmission in place, and didn't find it to be an issue. I did run ito the fuel rail issue mentioned above. That sensor made it quite a pain. I did not remove the hood, but I propped it up as high as possible. I used as short of an engine sling/chain as possible to keep the engine as close to the lift arm as possible. I didn't use a leveler, but I made sure my lifting hardware was even front to back. This all gave me BARELY enough clearance between the hood above, and the frame and axle tube below. I would have to nudge the engine back a bit, then lower a bit, and repeat several times. If I have to do it over, I'll make a lift bracket for the rear that can stay in place, and I will give serious consideration to removing the hood.

Mike
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Yeah, with the chain hoist from above, and the hood off, it was pretty easy once I figured out the right way. The extra light from big overhead lights is worth a lot with the hood off also.

So, I was extra super duper dumb in bolting the TC to engine. I had just installed the transmission, then unistalled, then reinstalled.... :ROTFL:

Good thing I bought the $100 harbor freight tranny jack and built a descent platform on it. Now I can add upgraded TC's with little trouble.
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Mountainman wrote:
Yeah, with the chain hoist from above, and the hood off, it was pretty easy once I figured out the right way. The extra light from big overhead lights is worth a lot with the hood off also.

So, I was extra super duper dumb in bolting the TC to engine. I had just installed the transmission, then unistalled, then reinstalled.... :ROTFL:

Good thing I bought the $100 harbor freight tranny jack and built a descent platform on it. Now I can add upgraded TC's with little trouble.


If you can, I would like to see pictures of your tranmission jack/platform thingy.
Author:  dntlkbak [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
I have pulled mine out with the fuel rail attached and the hood on twice now, but the second time it was a little sideways and it was a little battle. From my learnings, make sure you have it hanging on your hoist in a level position forward and back and side to side. Like mountainman says you will have to tip it forward a little to clear the axle tube and get it in place, three things have to go right at pretty much the same time to get it in, clear the axle, make sure the fuel rail clears and set it on the mounts then it should fall in place. I have to put mine back in again so we will see how lucky I am this time.
Author:  lars0247 [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
I don't see how it would be possible to leave the transmission just bolted to the crossmember and then remove the engine. When I swapped my transmission, I could see no way to access the upper bell housing bolts with the transmission still in its normal position. I had to remove the crossmember to tilt the transmission down enough to allow the bolts to be accessed with a 3 foot or so long extension and a swivel socket. If there is an easier way (without the aid of a hoist) I'm all ears.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
flash7210 wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
Yeah, with the chain hoist from above, and the hood off, it was pretty easy once I figured out the right way. The extra light from big overhead lights is worth a lot with the hood off also.

So, I was extra super duper dumb in bolting the TC to engine. I had just installed the transmission, then unistalled, then reinstalled.... :ROTFL:

Good thing I bought the $100 harbor freight tranny jack and built a descent platform on it. Now I can add upgraded TC's with little trouble.


If you can, I would like to see pictures of your tranmission jack/platform thingy.


I will add a pic as soon as I get the wife to help me with pics again. This time I'll write down the process. But, in the meantime. I bolted a piece of subfloor scrap (1 & 1/4 plywood) about 12"x18" to the top plate of the jack, and screwed a 2x4 to make it sit level with the PML pan. I can remove the "PML adapter" and add a small piece of 1x4 for stock pans (like my daily driver has). The HF jack held up to the weight with the transfer case and cross member attached, and the built in ratchet strap was just long enough to make it nice and secure. Time will tell if it fails after a few TC upgrade jobs.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
lars0247 wrote:
I don't see how it would be possible to leave the transmission just bolted to the crossmember and then remove the engine. When I swapped my transmission, I could see no way to access the upper bell housing bolts with the transmission still in its normal position. I had to remove the crossmember to tilt the transmission down enough to allow the bolts to be accessed with a 3 foot or so long extension and a swivel socket. If there is an easier way (without the aid of a hoist) I'm all ears.


I'm pretty sure the two times I pulled one of these transmissions that I was just able to get those bolts without moving lowering it. Maybe it was my particular combination of extensions and wobble socket. But yeah, it was about 2' of extensions, or maybe my 2' extension without any joints to get in the way. I'll let you know tomorrow when I go torque those 2 bolts, as I just got them in there finger tight right now.
Author:  Mike92104 [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Mountainman wrote:
lars0247 wrote:
I don't see how it would be possible to leave the transmission just bolted to the crossmember and then remove the engine. When I swapped my transmission, I could see no way to access the upper bell housing bolts with the transmission still in its normal position. I had to remove the crossmember to tilt the transmission down enough to allow the bolts to be accessed with a 3 foot or so long extension and a swivel socket. If there is an easier way (without the aid of a hoist) I'm all ears.


I'm pretty sure the two times I pulled one of these transmissions that I was just able to get those bolts without moving lowering it. Maybe it was my particular combination of extensions and wobble socket. But yeah, it was about 2' of extensions, or maybe my 2' extension without any joints to get in the way. I'll let you know tomorrow when I go torque those 2 bolts, as I just got them in there finger tight right now.


When I removed the engine, I had already pulled the head which makes getting to those a lot easier. Going back in, however, the engine wss complete. I used a ratcheting boxed end wrench to tighten those bolts. I wouldn't say it was easy, but it was doable.
Author:  dntlkbak [ Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assembled engine install: lessons learned
Pull off the skid plates, remove the transmission crossmember bolts, lower transmission with everything still attached, remove the two top bell housing bolts, jack the transmission back up, install the crossmember bolts only need one on each side as you will have to reverse this procedure to install again.
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