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CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time? *Updates*
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83290		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Brasher [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time? *Updates*
I am so sick of this crap. I will repair the Jeep to the best of my ability, and then it will be gone.

So here is the story: Took the Jeep into the North Carolina Mountains this weekend for some hiking. No issues on the drive from Atlanta, during the mountain drive, or through the woods down Forest Service roads. It was a little cold, mid 20's Saturday morning when we cranked it after the first night camping. Parked it at about 9pm Saturday evening running just fine.

Try to crank it at 645am Sunday to pull out of campsite. Not quite at cold, low 30's. Jeep starts, runs for a second, and then quits. I didn't think much about it as I do have to prime the fuel every now and then. I prime the fuel (the plunger was soft) and crank again. Jeep starts. After a couple of seconds (I didn't even have it in gear) it begins making this horrible knocking noise and has zero power. And by zero power I mean can't even put it drive without the engine stalling. No lights at this point aside from the TPMS indicator.

After finally getting the Jeep out of the campsite by using 4 low, I had it towed.

So the symptoms: No power, knocking sound, CEL (don't know the code), stalls when put into gear unless in 4 low.

Here is a video: https://youtu.be/rtPFcY1XUbQ

To me, it sounds a lot like Sir Sam's video: https://youtu.be/95x7NiozPB0

The stats: 2005 Liberty CRD limited. 108k miles. Timing Belt replaced by me at 99k miles, along with tensioner, idle pulleys, water pump, all sourced from IDparts. Used FSM, special alignment tools, torque wrench, and Loctite. Even aligned the injector pump despite some claiming it isn't necessary. GDE ecotune, 5w-40 T6, oil change every 5k.

So, do you think it is bad rockers? Why would they go bad? If the timing belt jumped, why did it jump? Was it temperature related? How can I (sorry, next owner) prevent this in the future?

EDIT: I left out (rather, forgot) a critical observation: blue-white smoke out the exhaust. Could be an injector issue, but it was/is also cold.

EDIT 2: More possibly relevant information: A few days before the trip, the oil light began flickering on and off, although strangely it was flickering on as the engine revs increased. Of course oil level was fine. I poked around online and saw that the oil sensor is a common problem for many Chrysler vehicles. I replaced the sensor before the trip and the light has not come on since. (unless of course the engine isn't running).
Author:  journeyjim [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Mine did that and it was the fuel filter, some how I got air into it, went about a block and ran the plunger till I couldn't push it. That was last Jan and haven't had it do it since.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
You need to verify that fuel supply is not the problem before you tear into the motor.
It could be gelled fuel, a clogged fuel filter, or air in fuel problem.
Author:  Brasher [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
I didn't mention it in the original post, but I did bleed all air using the bleed valve after the issue started. I will give it another go though. Fuel filter was replaced at same time as the timing belt. The truck does have the updated fuel head as well.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
drain the fuel filter into a glass jar and let it settle

see if it has layers or stuff floating
Author:  geordi [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Listening to this, it does seem that rockers could be a cause. It would be highly unusual to happen during a startup cycle though. Your fuel filter is only as good as your last fill up however.

If the fuel filter has been contaminated by poor fuel, that could potentially cause these same sounds, as could air in fuel from an air leak somewhere.

If a fresh filter doesn't solve the problem, I can be available to take a look at it, I will most likely be driving through Atlanta in the next week or three on the way to Kentucky. We can talk about options at that time, but assuming you are looking at a rocker job, the absolute minimum is $370 for the rockers and $1600 in labor... But the studs and elbow kit is highly suggested as well as glow plugs and a timing belt, for a grand total of $3000 and the job and all mods are completed. Whether that gives you enough of a return with a selling price between 7 and 10 thousand, is up to you to decide. Or, depending on your decision and your situations and my inspection... I might be willing to make an offer as it sits and get you out of it without any further hassles.
Author:  rankom [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
if it is not a rocker problem , if its smoking raw fuel , its my favourite (injector stuck open)
Author:  Efren_Hinojosa [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
I am not as familiar as i would like to be with the 2.8 vm, but to me it does sound like a fuel problem.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Author:  rankom [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
i can say that in my case ,i didn't know this engine , so when this happen to me , on the freeway , i tow it home , took it a part , no broken rockers found , took injectors to fuel shop , got test them , they call me , saying noting wrong they automize ok , and toll me to take oil pan and look for bad bearings , i toll them to give me beater answer , they sad ok they will do retest , got call back next day, they say sorry don't take oil pan down you have 2 bad injectors , at this point i started looking for help here and i found help and install lift pump GDE tune and etc ,
Author:  lars0247 [ Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
If you had to prime the fuel every now and then in the past, then you have a leak. A leak will quickly make this engine have no power and or run very badly depending on how large the leak is and where the air ends up. The original style fuel filter heads are known to leak through connector(s). I would put in a $40 facet lift pump. I have not had any low power situations in the year and a half since I put in the Facet pump and new style fuel head.
Author:  Brasher [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
I pulled and drained the fuel filter. Fuel looked clean. Filter was full of fuel. Reinstalled filter (didn't replace, it was actually replaced at 101,xxx miles, so a little newer than the timing belt. It is a Mann brand.). Primed again, bleeding all air (steady stream, no burping). Cranked, ran like crap, turned key to off. Checked prime, no air. Repeated this several times. Sometimes the engine will continue running, sometimes it will come to a jolting stop.

Edited first post to include information I left out.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
I sent you a PM - still seems like it could be a rocker job, but if you are just looking to bail out, spending the money for a questionable return may not be worth it at this point.
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Rockers are no fun.

Can you get us a video of it running? Use your phone and upload to youtube or something?

It would be much easier to diagnose.

Broken rockers won't give a CEL though, which leads many on this board to think it might be fuel related. Pull your codes and see what they are as well. Most Auto shops won't have a code reader that will read the faults in your CRD, so you're going to have to be careful in what you use to pull them.

Either way, good luck!
Author:  Brasher [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Hexus wrote:
Rockers are no fun.

Can you get us a video of it running? Use your phone and upload to youtube or something?

It would be much easier to diagnose.

Broken rockers won't give a CEL though, which leads many on this board to think it might be fuel related. Pull your codes and see what they are as well. Most Auto shops won't have a code reader that will read the faults in your CRD, so you're going to have to be careful in what you use to pull them.

Either way, good luck!


Hexus,

There is a video in the original post. https://youtu.be/rtPFcY1XUbQ
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Brasher wrote:
Hexus wrote:
Rockers are no fun.

Can you get us a video of it running? Use your phone and upload to youtube or something?

It would be much easier to diagnose.

Broken rockers won't give a CEL though, which leads many on this board to think it might be fuel related. Pull your codes and see what they are as well. Most Auto shops won't have a code reader that will read the faults in your CRD, so you're going to have to be careful in what you use to pull them.

Either way, good luck!


Hexus,

There is a video in the original post. https://youtu.be/rtPFcY1XUbQ


My Apologies, I guess there is and in my old age I missed it.

Yes, that is the sound that broken rockers/lifters make.

Mine broke at the top of the lifter tappet, and that break caused several other rockers to be damaged.

My condolences.

There is no bright side to this, I hope it isn't your primary vehicle (though I'm guessing it is).

It's a toss up as to who is closer, I believe Geordi and I are equidistant to this one. If you want some knowledgeable help we're your best resource. I don't know what Geordi's schedule looks like, but I'm busy as crap.

Regardless, good luck! (P.S. I enjoy that you listed the video under "COMEDY" on YouTube.)
Author:  Brasher [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Thanks. Sounds like my weekend will be full of rocker replacement fun.
Author:  Brasher [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Should I do the Headgasket at the same time? Is it literally removing the headbolts and lifting the head once I'm to the point of the rockers? Or is there more? If I'm doing this much work on it, I guess I'm keeping it.

edit: Derp, manifolds would have to come off too.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
The first 2 I done I left the exhaust manifold on and removed the turbo. The last one I did I left the turbo on. Either way it's a lot of labor and the turbo drain tube is a pain in the arse
Author:  rankom [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
well this is just my opinion , when i overhauled diesel engines ( any engine ) practise was to send pump end injectors for testing , so when you turn the key after overhaul , you know she will run 100% , but again your call , this is way i did
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Engine "knock". Broken Rockers? Jumped Time?
Before you tear into it, try unplugging the injectors, one at a time. See what difference it makes in the sound. If you unplug an injector and don't see a difference, that means that cylinder doesn't work right. Get some crush washers from idparts.com, and try swapping 2 injectors, one that works with the one that you saw no difference. Test again to confirm you have a bad injector. If the same cylinder, with a working injector does not seem to work right, you have your answer, more than likely you have rocker issue. But before you do that, what codes you have? You may have a code that tells you there is a low circuit for a specific injector. That can be because you have a bad connector. That can make the engine sound similar to what you have. Based on your story, out of the blue, it is very unlikely to have bad rockers, unless you messed something up when you did the timing belt, like not adjusting the tensioner properly (you need to turn the engine by hand from crank and readjust the tensioner), or you forgot to torque a bolt, etc...
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