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UPDATE 05' CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, REPLACED W/ PICS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83450		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  dirtmover [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
They did not assemble with anti-seize at the factory so this is not an original GP.

The probability if catastrophic damage is relatively small with ceramics but still exists hence the trend away from them. An hour or so browsing this and other forums will reveal that the reality is that your vehicle is at higher risk of catastrophic failure due to other reasons than a failed glow plug.

The tips are visibly different on the ceramic versus metal sheathed. The ceramic ends in a tip that is like a small nipple. Check out the pictures of them.

The ceramic plugs are not as fragile as people like to make out. The problem is that when they fail the ceramic tends to split or crack up its length. That's when you're in danger of it falling apart although the failed ones that I've handled have all been remarkably robust despite this split. Did you see any signs of splitting? If so I'd get it out of there ASAP.
Author:  mass-hole [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
So I emailed GDE to see what voltage my tune was set too, it turns out its 7V, but I just went to check the glow plugs on the jeep and it appears that I have the 5V Metallic replacements. They have a red Ring around the stem just below where the plug pushes on and according to GDE:

Red = 5V Metallic Bosch(i just confirmed that mine are 5V after removing the #4 plug.)
White = 7V Ceramics Bosch
None = most likely 7V Etecno
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
mass-hole wrote:
So I emailed GDE to see what voltage my tune was set too, it turns out its 7V, but I just went to check the glow plugs on the jeep and it appears that I have the 5V Metallic replacements. They have a red Ring around the stem just below where the plug pushes on and according to GDE:

Red = 5V Metallic Bosch(i just confirmed that mine are 5V after removing the #4 plug.)
White = 7V Ceramics Bosch
None = most likely 7V Etecno


Is it starting up good with the 5v plugs?
Author:  mass-hole [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
flash7210 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
So I emailed GDE to see what voltage my tune was set too, it turns out its 7V, but I just went to check the glow plugs on the jeep and it appears that I have the 5V Metallic replacements. They have a red Ring around the stem just below where the plug pushes on and according to GDE:

Red = 5V Metallic Bosch(i just confirmed that mine are 5V after removing the #4 plug.)
White = 7V Ceramics Bosch
None = most likely 7V Etecno


Is it starting up good with the 5v plugs?


I've never noticed an issue with the plugs themselves. As long as my battery was strong it always started fine but it tended to die if I left it out for more than one night.

It survived my wife daily driving it in the Northeast last winter and it was COLD. Many days below 0 and it would sit out in the parking lot at her office for 8 hrs+ and she never had an issue. Occasionally it would take a little cranking but I think that was more to do with the air in the fuel. Once it started it idled smooth.

But again, I was running the 5V at 7V so who knows what was really going on.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
Started at zero, maybe you have found a more successful mod? :5SHOTS:
Author:  geordi [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
The separation ring on the Etecno plugs is black if I remember correctly from the last set I installed.

I don't know how long the Bosch 5v plugs would put up with 7v being fed to them, but that would certainly make them run hotter. Also since the voltage is being sent as a series of fast pulses, the actual supply voltage is much higher - battery voltage - and only the slower rise of the heating element allows the voltage to be an "effective" voltage rather than a full-contact measurement.

Basically - if you have an old style lightbulb that you could switch on and off fast enough, the light would always be getting brighter or dimmer as the power was applied and removed, and in theory, you could supply it with far more than 120v to light it up. If that power stayed connected too long though, the filament would instantly pop.
Author:  95Z28A4 [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
Providing the 5 volt glow plug tip doesn't "pop" like the light bulb filament, running the 5 volt plugs at 7 volts may be the answer. If the glow plugs last 2 years, that's only $50 per year to ensure starting at 0F.
Author:  Yeti [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
the new 5v from bosch have a new tecnology , have two resistance , one in the tip for heating and one that change the resistance with the heat ....more heat less voltage for preventing the overheting , the new 5v run with the new management for 7v but because of its new technology are heated unless the 7v , more durable
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
95Z28A4 wrote:
Providing the 5 volt glow plug tip doesn't "pop" like the light bulb filament, running the 5 volt plugs at 7 volts may be the answer. If the glow plugs last 2 years, that's only $50 per year to ensure starting at 0F.


I wonder how cold you could start with that set up plus the Sasquatch intake heater? I wouldn't want to start these engines that cold on a regular basis, but occasionally in a pinch would be nice.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
Yeti wrote:
the new 5v from bosch have a new tecnology , have two resistance , one in the tip for heating and one that change the resistance with the heat ....more heat less voltage for preventing the overheting , the new 5v run with the new management for 7v but because of its new technology are heated unless the 7v , more durable


Yeti- In light of Massholes experience. Maybe you should just try tossing some 5v's in yours and see if that helps? Might just work really well.
Author:  Yeti [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
That's what I think
Author:  joelukex4 [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
I'll stick with my 7v ceramics until I get a fault. They have worked well. As soon as I get a fault I will change them with a new set of ceramics.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
joelukex4 wrote:
I'll stick with my 7v ceramics until I get a fault. They have worked well. As soon as I get a fault I will change them with a new set of ceramics.


do they still make the ceramics? how much do they cost?
Author:  Efren_Hinojosa [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
Mountainman wrote:
joelukex4 wrote:
I'll stick with my 7v ceramics until I get a fault. They have worked well. As soon as I get a fault I will change them with a new set of ceramics.


do they still make the ceramics? how much do they cost?

Are they worth the risk? I beleive mine still has the originals so i ordered new ones to swap them out since i heard they can ruin an engine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Author:  dirtmover [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
joelukex4 wrote:
I'll stick with my 7v ceramics until I get a fault. They have worked well. As soon as I get a fault I will change them with a new set of ceramics.


do they still make the ceramics? how much do they cost?

Are they worth the risk? I beleive mine still has the originals so i ordered new ones to swap them out since i heard they can ruin an engine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

They don't make the original ceramics any more though you may still be able to find stock if you're willing to pay a hefty premium.

Now if you still have originals be very careful easing them out. Plenty of penetrant and be prepared to take your time.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
I don't think they're worth it. I remember people buying used ones for a hefty price, but I wasn't sure if that was because of Chrysler scalping or not...
Author:  geordi [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
They are absolutely not worth the risk. The ceramics that I have removed have all been treated roughly once they are well clear of the engine - as a preventative to ensure they are never used in an engine again.

"Hard-to-start" does not mean "doesn't start" and I will take that every time, over the risk of a ceramic plug exploding and taking out a valve / trashing the motor. It has happened to more than a few people, and it is NOT WORTH THE RISK.
Author:  rankom [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
hey guys this may make you laugh, if i was a young guy lots of spare time i would install cummins 4bt 3.9 mechanical engine in this think , and be done with , glow plug , limp mode , cel ,abc , etc, dropping valves , etc , i think that would be a nice looking engine under this hood , only problem would be , no glow plugs ...
Author:  95Z28A4 [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
rankom wrote:
hey guys this may make you laugh, if i was a young guy lots of spare time i would install cummins 4bt 3.9 mechanical engine in this think , and be done with , glow plug , limp mode , cel ,abc , etc, dropping valves , etc , i think that would be a nice looking engine under this hood , only problem would be , no glow plugs ...


Try a Cummins QSB 3.3L 4 cylinder common rail diesel instead.

It uses a Bosch ECM. It is iron block and iron head. It is overhead valve with gear driven camshaft. It weighs about the same as a 318 Chrysler engine. It uses a single element grid heater without glow plugs. I have an AX15/NP231 bolted to mine.
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2005 CRD 188k Bosch 7V Plugs, Replace?
rankom wrote:
hey guys this may make you laugh, if i was a young guy lots of spare time i would install cummins 4bt 3.9 mechanical engine in this think , and be done with , glow plug , limp mode , cel ,abc , etc, dropping valves , etc , i think that would be a nice looking engine under this hood , only problem would be , no glow plugs ...

The 4bt would flatten the crd suspension in less than 10miles, it's quite a heavy m-effer.. Plus it's too tall. But I agree with you otherwise
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