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Cold start and winter proofing
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83690		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  CoyoteIrons [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Cold start and winter proofing
This is my first post, sooo...hi everyone! I purchased one of these wonderful vehicles for my wife in august and so far it has been great. This will be our first winter with it(or any diesel) and it gets pretty cold here in Northeast south dakota. It starts fine in the morning in the garage with the block heater plugged in but not so much after sitting outside for 8+ hours at work. What are some things I can do or check to make sure it will start without being plugged in? I have already put some cardboard in the grill.
Author:  rankom [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
welcome to crd cold start issue , this think likes italian climate.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Ideally block heater but if that's not an option:
1. winter diesel - don't know when stations switch up there but worth finding out and being sure that's what you are getting
2. Power Service winter fuel treatment (white bottle) at every fill-even if using winter diesel
3. proper oil - Rotella T6 0 or 5w-40 or equivalent.
4. good battery - cold is very hard on batteries; ideally 800+CCA. This is CRITICAL
5. might or might not help but I'd try to park in a sunny area and out of the wind as possible.
6. on really cold start some say cycling the glow plugs helps.
7. fully functional thermostat - back in August did the temp gauge stay near vertical or a tic or 2 below vertical. If the latter the thermostat is shot.

Will likely crank rough; sound horrible; but settle down shortly. Once running give it 15-30 seconds before driving off and remember all the other fluids are cold (ex. transmission won't fully up shift until proper fluid temp is reached) so keep it to like 35mph or less until coolant needle shows signs of life.
Author:  minisub [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
You don't say what glow plugs you are running, and that they are all functional.

I found last winter, coldest in these parts in a generation, that waiting for the chimes to stop before cranking helped a lot. Never did this before the steel Etecnos, but it also was never as cold as last year.
Author:  olypopper [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
You may want to install one of Sasquatch parts intake heater. It should really help this little engine start when cold.

My CRD is fitted with a block heater, oil pan and transmission pan heating pads as well as a battery charger. I always plug in at work and it always starts. As mentioned, make certain your glow plugs are up to snuff and in my opinion it wouldn't hurt to swap them out and include a new harness and relay. Put a good quality battery in it too.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
olypopper wrote:
You may want to install one of Sasquatch parts intake heater. It should really help this little engine start when cold.

My CRD is fitted with a block heater, oil pan and transmission pan heating pads as well as a battery charger. I always plug in at work and it always starts. As mentioned, make certain your glow plugs are up to snuff and in my opinion it wouldn't hurt to swap them out and include a new harness and relay. Put a good quality battery in it too.


Good info here op. Not to hijack the thread but how do you like your tranny pad. I have a deep pml pan and seems like it takes forever to shift properly in the winter. You can pm me th info so we don't clutter this thread
Author:  CoyoteIrons [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Yes lots of good info here thanks everyone, I have a few replies to various comments in no particular order

1. Gas stations have been selling winter blend diesel for weeks now, but I can sure start putting in additive if it helps any amount.

2. Battery doesn't have a date on it that I can see but it looks pretty new, I believe the dealership put in a new one when they got it in on trade. It does seems like it will only crank for maybe 10 seconds when cold then the battery gives up, I don't know if it's a crap battery or I have other problems.

3. Figured out the tstat was bad a few months ago, did the cheap bandaid in hose tstat, I plan on replacing it when I do the timing belt this winrer.

4. I haven't had time to check the glow plugs yet. If any one of them is bad will it throw a code? Is there an easy way to pull one to see if it still has the factory ceramic plugs? Has anybody looked into rigging something up to turn them on manually, they don't seem to stay on as long as I think they should.

5. The sasquatch intake heater looks nice but is a little spendy, maybe I can fit it in before next winter.
Author:  mass-hole [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
CoyoteIrons wrote:
Yes lots of good info here thanks everyone, I have a few replies to various comments in no particular order

1. Gas stations have been selling winter blend diesel for weeks now, but I can sure start putting in additive if it helps any amount.

2. Battery doesn't have a date on it that I can see but it looks pretty new, I believe the dealership put in a new one when they got it in on trade. It does seems like it will only crank for maybe 10 seconds when cold then the battery gives up, I don't know if it's a crap battery or I have other problems.

3. Figured out the tstat was bad a few months ago, did the cheap bandaid in hose tstat, I plan on replacing it when I do the timing belt this winrer.

4. I haven't had time to check the glow plugs yet. If any one of them is bad will it throw a code? Is there an easy way to pull one to see if it still has the factory ceramic plugs? Has anybody looked into rigging something up to turn them on manually, they don't seem to stay on as long as I think they should.

5. The sasquatch intake heater looks nice but is a little spendy, maybe I can fit it in before next winter.

For the glow plugs, you can simply look at them and there should be a colored ring near the end where the plug slides over it:

White = Bosch 7v Ceramics
Red= Bosch 5V Steel, Jeep's replacement for the ceramic s
No Ring = Etencno Steel
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Based on "2. Battery doesn't have a date on it that I can see but it looks pretty new, I believe the dealership put in a new one when they got it in on trade. It does seems like it will only crank for maybe 10 seconds when cold then the battery gives up, I don't know if it's a crap battery or I have other problems." you have a crap battery. If and it's a big if the dealer put in a new battery I'll bet a decent 6-pack it's the cheapest 2-year battery they could get and 450-500CCA at best. That's why it gives up in 10 seconds or so. In normal weather with a good battery engine should fire up in 1-3 seconds.

The OEM red top was IIRC 700CCA but more is better. You really need something like http://www.interstatebatteries.com/p/au ... 7384906-21 . This is a regular Group 34 battery not the 34R (terminals reversed) that is OEM but just mount the battery with the terminals in the factory orientation and the cables will reach although you might have to slightly bend the - cable end to reach the terminal. If you still have the OEM insulated battery wrap it probably won't fit unless you cut in and splice something across the gap or just get a bigger wrap (with/without power) to help keep the battery from getting too cold.
Author:  dirtmover [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
The winters here are a bit colder than yours but still not cold enough for many places to have dedicated block heater outlets. Here's what I do - put it in the garage early December, drive one of my other vehicles over winter, get it back out again at the end of March. Expensive winter diesel, crap mileage, rough starts and a perpetually cold engine. It's just not worth it. My CRD is a lot happier for a winter hibernation and I expect it to repay me with a few extra years before it rusts out.
Author:  turblediesel [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Optima battery lasted less than three years. Interstate battery was good for five years. Group 34R battery is basically the same as group 34; only difference is the positive and negative terminals are reversed.
Author:  mass-hole [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
You also should have around 12 seconds of glow plug time from when you turn the key on. Dont just jump in and start it, give it a solid 5-12 seconds with the key in the run position and then crank it.

If all your systems are functioning, then you shouldn't have any issues. I've left my jeep for a week at the airport, enough time for the entire thing to saturate and become as cold as can be, and it still doesnt take more than 2 or 3 seconds to kick over.
Author:  xhizzous [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Federated Auto Parts (if there are any near you) has a good 850 CCA @ 0 battery. I believe its made by Eastern Penn or Deka but I cant remember. I had to put one in my 06 last year because it was so cold and the battery in it was at least 4 or 5 years old, it cranks over very quickly now almost like a gas 4cyl.

I don't know how close they are to you but I would at least give them a call and ask.

http://www.federatedautoparts.com/Index.aspx
Author:  CoyoteIrons [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
The battery in it is a 800cca centeniall battery. I've installed an on board battery maintainer which will get plugged in at night with the block heater.

Does the glow plug light only illuminate when the glow plugs are on? My light only stay on for a few seconds when it's coldest.
Author:  mass-hole [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
CoyoteIrons wrote:
The battery in it is a 800cca centeniall battery. I've installed an on board battery maintainer which will get plugged in at night with the block heater.

Does the glow plug light only illuminate when the glow plugs are on? My light only stay on for a few seconds when it's coldest.


Mine does the same thing. I have used a voltmeter to test at the glowplug harness and it runs for 12 seconds. 2 seconds at 5V and 10 seconds at 4V. At least on my GDE tune, stock may be a bit different.
Author:  olypopper [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
mass-hole wrote:
CoyoteIrons wrote:
The battery in it is a 800cca centeniall battery. I've installed an on board battery maintainer which will get plugged in at night with the block heater.

Does the glow plug light only illuminate when the glow plugs are on? My light only stay on for a few seconds when it's coldest.


Mine does the same thing. I have used a voltmeter to test at the glowplug harness and it runs for 12 seconds. 2 seconds at 5V and 10 seconds at 4V. At least on my GDE tune, stock may be a bit different.


FYI- GDE leaves the factory glow plug strategy alone unless you request something different.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
Not to change subject here, but has anyone ever found a winter front that fits?
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
HER_CRD wrote:
Not to change subject here, but has anyone ever found a winter front that fits?


There is a company in Saskatchewan that makes beautiful stainless steel grill inserts. With the Canadian dollar being so low you can probably get a real deal on them. The company is called Cloud Rider, and this is their website...

http://www.cloud-rider.com/

Contact information:

Cloud-Rider® Designs Ltd.
1260-8th Avenue
Regina, Saskatchewan S4R 1C9
Canada

Telephone: 1-306-761-2119
Toll Free: 1-800-632-1255
Fax: 1-306-761-2122
e-mail: office@cloud-rider.ca

I have their winter fronts for both of my Liberty CRDs, and they work quite well. However, I must admit that this season that the family is only driving 1 CRD, and on that one am still torture testing the Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001 engine thermostat assembly, so I have not put the winter fronts back on.

CoyoteIrons:

if you are using the inline t-stat, please make sure your warm-ups are gentle... if your O.E. thermostat assembly has failed, the bypass cooling circuit is closed. This means that - during warm-up - you will have no coolant circulating around the engine for a relatively even temperature increase throughout the engine. This can cause head gasket failures.
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
The ultimate in cold weather starting is a diesel fired engine heater. A Webasto TSL 17 heater pumps out about 13 times as much heat as a block heater, and is meant for 3000lb commercial diesel engine blocks; it will have no problem heating up the little R428 to 170 degrees. They are thermostatically controlled, so you do not have to worry about overheating your engine.

People in the oilfields up here in Alberta install the Webastos and the Espar D5 heaters on their heavy-duty diesel pickup trucks, and they love 'em! No idling to warm the engine up, and NO PLUG IN REQUIRED!!

I have a line on brand new genuine Webasto TSL17s and the programmer/timers., and I am certain that I can beat the best price you can find them at due to the low Canuk buck. 8) :mrgreen:

Anyone interested in a diesel fired engine heater should contact me... I can probably do a special deal if a CRD owner wants a Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001 engine thermostat assembly, and a Webasto TSL17.

Best regards,
Author:  Rocky05 [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cold start and winter proofing
mass-hole wrote:
You also should have around 12 seconds of glow plug time from when you turn the key on. Dont just jump in and start it, give it a solid 5-12 seconds with the key in the run position and then crank it.

If all your systems are functioning, then you shouldn't have any issues. I've left my jeep for a week at the airport, enough time for the entire thing to saturate and become as cold as can be, and it still doesnt take more than 2 or 3 seconds to kick over.



I've been giving at least 10 seconds before start up in about 12°

Takes a fewe turns on my 97 Optima red top. Makes me nervous enough to buy a yellow top. Either way it's due.
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