My vote is for arp's. The labor to go back in at a later point is what decides it for me(although it's still not a guarantee to not have to go in again).

Also, I am to a firm believer anytime the head is disturbed/moved from the block a new head gasket should be used.

They sell head gaskets by themselves. I purchased my last 1 hole off of ebay uk for roughly 120 shipped. That kinda helps the cost of arp's when they don't come with the tty bolts

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

I also always do a new gasket, and I've found the gaskets for even less than mentioned above, also minus the head bolts. I probably have one I could sell you for about $100, as I stocked up.

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

I almost always do things like I am planning to keep a vehicle forever - we usually do keep them forever.

I think I am going to get rid of something, then the years pass, It's still drive-able and not worth anything to get rid of, so we just keep running them until their legs fall off. I put 800,000 on my last truck.

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 142,000 miles New engine 2-2014, Green Eco tune, FS2500 bypass filter Weeks elbow, European Torque converter, brakes front UCA's wheel bearing and front hubs. Front hitch OEM lift pump
98 K2500 Suburban 6.5td
96 K1500 " 6.5td
95 2 door Tahoe 6.5td
94 K3500 cc srw 5 speed 6.5td
91 International Model 6 speed spicer 4700

Yeah, if he doesn't live where the rust eats the Jeep to bits, then good chance it will run for half a million.

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

IDParts sells the head gasket with TTY factory bolts for $130

http://www.idparts.com/head-gasket-and- ... -3180.html

Hmmm, they must of dropped the price. Before it made me question the arps. But heck at that price=arp's all day

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

Looking for opinions on crankshaft posn sensors. While I have the engine pulled I am going to change the sensor. Will never be a better time in terms of access. I am going on the assumption that the sensor is original.

ID Parts has (presumably) the Mopar part for $82.

Rock Auto has Standard Motor for $51 or Airtex for $52. Plus I have 5% off with Rock so the shipping is essentially free.

Any input on good/bad experiences with either the Airtex or Standard Motor?

Pulling the engine tomorrow. Will need to rotate the crank to get at the flexplate bolts.. Service manual says not to rotate the crank unless the 'special' cylinder liner hold tools are in place or else the liners will come out. Seems at odds with the other 'special' tool that is required to pull the liners out of the block. Kinda like- which is it either they are so loose piston ring force will push it out or they are so stuck you need a puller.

What have you guys experienced?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I've never had them move on me, but the "special" hold down is little more than two bolts per cylinder and a fat washer to reach over the lip and hold the liner.

Shouldn't be hard to find some short metric bolts that match the block threads of the bolts or arp studs

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Well...still working on photos...however. You need to replace the followers...they can be purchased from the UK for less than $10.00 each. You can purchase a head gasket for $40.00. I sourced many parts from the Euro side of the pond. Rod bearing sets are $30....main sets $55. Freight is less $ to deliver to the west coast than ordering a like part and having UPS'ed. I have fully rebuilt two...my cost of parts is 25% of pricing in the states. That includes the import duty bill you will receive later. Delivery has been no longer than three days.

I posted some parts sources on the CRD facebook group. Please understand I am not speaking down on ID Parts, I purchase from them.

ARP studs..I got beat up bad on the group. Every one of these diesel I have messed with has had the problem in #3. Cam followers coming apart...cracked head...valves "dropping. My theory is the block design is not rigid enough with wet sleeves and the crank support system. At the moment Geiordi is requesting feedback on disassembly torque pressures of the TTY bolts.

ARP studs are a marvelous upgrade...again I become contaversial. The torque you will be instructed to secure them at is to high. The head distorts. I posted photos with the sequence tightening with new TTY showing the digital read on the tool. Also with the ARP studs. Also posted a straight edge across the head showing a .002 feeler guage slid under as a visual. On two of the fastener locations the adjuster would not slid in from the excessive crush. I have somewhat figured out a "proper" torque.

When installing ARP studs I always go one gasket thickness larger do to the "crush".

As for "special tools"....If you are "handy" you order the $49 alignment kit from Ebay. I did spring a couple hundred for the Miller tool to hold the CP3 pump pulley in place so you do not have to remove the belt and fool with the timing.

As for the head...well...opinions are like belly buttons...we all have one. I have one head that is crackrd and dropped a valve. I am going to weld up, have surfaced (is a special process for this type of surface finish) and see what happens. All manufactures post specs on what the acceptable crack limits are. Heads are welded , straighted, repaired every day.

Maybe you do not remember...I am the fellow that contacted you prior with the same issue you have...driving down road and engine stopped. I believe I have located the issue. Will post results on my thread.

Ken

good job KEN I've asked this question before (WHY IS THIS ENGINE DROPPING VALVES)? i did get some answers like the egr issues wrong oil been used , but i like the way you looking into this because the is something with this unusual dropping valves because there are other diesel engines on this planet with egr system and bad oil choices and they don't dropping valves , so keep up the good work and i think ill get the answer.

Interesting. So what is the preferred torque process with the ARP studs?

I got the engine out. Pan off and piston out. Thank goodness the rod and crank are fine. Got a used piston that goes in tomorrow. Then i will button the bottom end back up.

Sorted thru all of the rockers. There are 3 that have a little more wear on the roller bearings than the rest. 2 on cyl #1 and 1 on cyl #3. Will replace those 3 for sure. But for $10 each i might consider a whole new set. I am not on Facebook. Can you msg me with the UK site?

Also, the cyl liners did not budge while rolling the crank over.

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I found these 5 pieces in the pan right under the oil pickup. They look like debris from the manuf process. Interesting

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Looking for anyone who has more input/thoughts/experience with reassembling the engine before reinstall. I would love to get it fully reassembled incl front cover and timing belt before dropping it back in. Wondering about clearances, mostly the top 4 trans to bellhousing bolts. Those were a bear to get out with the engine stripped down to the block. The SM claims you can drop the trans cross member and lower the trans to gain access, presumably from the bottom.

For those who have pulled/reinstalled these engines, what has worked easiest for you? Should I just button up the bottom end (oil pan) and drop the engine back in - and then rebuild the rest in place (like the disassembly)? Or put the whole thing together on the engine stand and drop it in complete?

One last question. I see the rear main seal is leaking. Not too expensive on IDParts. SM procedure sounds straightforward. Is it as simple as it sounds?

Thanks

For less than $10 each, he is buying USED or he is not getting the full set of lifter and rocker.

Gamble if you must, but VM Specialist sells used parts and may not be describing them as such or that information is not being passed along to the future prospects. I have heard of a couple people buying rockers that received a ziplock bag filled with oily rockers - used - and weren't expecting that.

Whatever you do, be aware of the risks.

As far as the head "crushing" I have never seen any pictures showing anything, and I have no idea what Ken is talking about with pushing a feeler gauge into somewhere and it not fitting... Unless your torque wrench is not accurate, the head will not (should not) deform with 130lb-ft of torque on the center bolts and 120lb-ft on the outside bolts. These numbers have been developed by ARP after analysis of the original TTY bolts, and you cannot expect a torque reading on a TTY bolt to be accurate once the bolt enters the plastic (deformed) range. Comparing a stretched TTY bolt to the ARP which is still firmly in its elastic range is not accurate.

Changing the head gasket thickness also does not track with swapping to ARP studs, the clamping force of the ARP has been determined to be the same as the factory bolts. Changing the gasket thickness is for discovering a different piston protrusion measurement, to prevent valve contact with the pistons. If the timing is accurate however, this should never be an issue. I do not know if the top of the cylinder liner actually contacts the bottom of the head or if there is a ring of the gasket that covers it up - I don't have one nearby to confirm for myself. But a thicker gasket could mean that the liner has room to shift if it is not properly compressed onto the shims underneath - The results of which I do not know, but probably are not good.

I have installed ARP studs on a large number of these engines now, and all are still driving around happily. None of the engines I have serviced have gotten larger gaskets. If that was a question, I would be doing the measurements and making certain that it was accurate, and choosing the appropriate gasket to match.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Isn't head gasket thickness determined by cylinder liner protrusion?

_________________
2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

I thought so, but apparently the measurement in the FSM calls it the piston protrusion. I don't know - the FSM has been wrong before, but I also haven't done the measurements on any engine yet b/c I've never messed with the liners at all.

I may be doing that on this next rebuild though, depending on how bad the bottom end rebuild is. I think that can be done without extracting the pistons though... Maybe?

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Well I bit the bullet and ordered the rest of the parts. With the IDParts order, the new injector and inspection of the other 3, the weeks stage 1 & 2 kit, and the ARP studs from lighting motor sports, I'm in for $1900. With the previous parts (used head, used piston, valve seals) and misc tools, this dropped valve is costing $2500.

I've got an early/preliminary theory on the dropped valve. And perhaps some of the other dropped valves (I've see a few of them here).

The first clue to my theory came when I was taking a close look at the photo I took of the broken valve (the actual valve is now at the shop). If you zoom in (obviously I can zoom in closer because I have the high res original), it looks like the portion of the stem that is in the intake stream is corroded and actually slightly smaller in diameter v. the portion that is not in the intake stream. I need to get a hold of the actual valve and put the calipers on it to confirm what the photo appears to be showing.

Now the next question is why? Well, it turns out that the sulfur in diesel fuel creates sulfuric acid during combustion and thus in the exhaust gas. And when you introduce that acid into the intake stream (via EGR) you initiate corrosive wear on your engine. Take a look at this article -

http://web.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/121998.pdf


Now the next interesting clue is related to why did the #3 valve break first? And why did the intake valve on the drivers side specifically break? Well, taking a close look at the design of the 2.8L intake design gives some answers. The #3 (and by a very slightly larger amount), the #3 cylinder/intake runner is closest to the main intake throat. And the drivers side valve(s) are closest to the intake throat. This places the #3, drivers side intake valve geometrically closest to the EGR intake - and therefor closest to the corrosive properties of the sulfuric acid.

Now one might ask - yes, but all modern diesel engine have EGR. Why is this engine suffering the failures. Honestly not sure. But I will say that these valve stems aren't the beefiest (in terms of stem diameter). These valves clearly don't have a ton of safety factor in terms of strength (again thinking of diameter of the stem).

And I suppose it makes sense to ask - why aren't more CRD's dropping valves? Again fair question. According to the study I linked above, sulfur amount (in the fuel) and humidity/dewpoint level have a direct influence on the corrosive property of the exhaust gas. Perhaps it makes a material difference where you fuel and your climate. My Jeep spent most of its life in GA.

So far this is just a theory. I am going to have the shop inspect/measure the diameter of the rest of the valves to confirm my theory. Will post results.

Forgot to mention, I got the used piston/sleeve on Fri. Got the new piston installed today and the bottom end buttoned up. Luckily I did not need to change the rod or use the sleeve that came with the used piston. Not sure what happened to the sleeve, but it has a visible crack starting at the bottom. No way I would have been able to use it. Wonder if he beat it out of the block with a metal drift or punch