CRD quit, now just cranks but will not fire

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

Hoping for some help. Purchased a used 06 CRD with 128k on it for my daughter. Had about a month. Its has been running fine. Did the normal service items (oil/filter, air filter, fuel filter, cleaned the MAP sensor, replaced the rubber turbo intake/outlet hoses because they were clearly original). And all was great. Last weekend we changed the 2 rear engine mounts. Again, ran fine all week. I drove it to town yesterday to get a new set of tires for her. Drove it home, no problems. Ran like a champ. Daughter gets into the Jeep and goes about 5miles down the freeway. Takes the off ramp, stops, makes a right hand turn and bam - engine absolutely dies - all gauges go flat and that's the end of it. Now all it will do it crank, but absolutely no hint of firing. Trailered it home. Here's what's I done so far -

1) Checked all of the fuses in the cabin and under the hood - all good
2) Checked the ASD relay - also good (swapped with nearby - relay out and everything goes dead - relay in and things come to life)
3) Verified the 'red dot' in the cluster goes out (no security issues)
4) Bled and bled and rebled. Solid fuel, no air. Really solid feel to primer
5) Checked behind the fuel filter bracket for broken wires, everything looks good
6) Pull #1 injector return/bleed hose off top of injector - cranked the engine, nothing comes.

What is the world could be the problem? I am thinking either the crank or cam sensor. But when I crank the engine I do get about 500-600RPM registering on the tach. Doesn't that mean the ECM is getting a signal from the crank sensor? Would either a crank or cam sensor just fail outright with no notice or intermittent issues?

Also, I notice that when the key is on but not cranking I am getting a humming/buzzing sound from the throttle plate motor. I took the intake hose off and tried putting my finger on the throttle plate during key up. It moves a little and then holds WOT position, but does buzz a bit - almost like it is working to stay in the WOT position. Is this normal?

Other than the throttle plate motor, at key up it is clear there is life in the engine bay. Lots of humming, buzzing, etc for about 15-20secs. Then all goes quiet except for the humming of the throttle plate motor.

Any thoughts?

PS - one more thing. I also checked for any ECM codes with my reader. Nothing. All is clear.

Thanks.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:17 pm

"6) Pull #1 injector return/bleed hose off top of injector - cranked the engine, nothing comes. " No fuel comes out while cranking? If so I doubt the issue is either of those sensors although a failed crank sensor would prevent a start and won't throw a code. Off hand I wonder if you have a fuel delivery problem. Try checking fuel flow between the filter and the CP3>

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:35 pm

At the end of the fuel rail, up against the firewall, is the fuel rail pressure solenoid.
Check to make sure it is plugged in properly.
If its unplugged or somehow gone bad, the engine will crank but not start.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:38 pm

have battery load tested for free at auto parts store. If they drop below a certain voltage the ECU stops the show. Check that all connectors under the hood are firmly attached, there are a few that could back off a hair and cause this.

Those proximity sensors can fail completely all of the sudden. Not sure how often these particular ones do. I know the crank sensor usually dies slowly. Maybe someone can chime in on which one provides the RPM signal, but if it's either, then that sucks...

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

Quick update. I loosened the fuel fitting at the #1 injector. Crank - no fuel. Pulled the nut all the way off and pull the feed pipe back a bit. Crank - nothing, no fuel. OK, that's not good. No high pressure fuel feed.

Went back to the filter head. Pulled the rubber hose off the head - on the outlet side - feed to the high pressure pump. Put a cup under the outlet. If I pump the primer I get good fuel coming out. But if I crank - nothing comes out. Now what?

PS - not the battery. I also hooked up the shop charger/starter while cranking. No difference in crank or start

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:05 pm

Check that you are getting fuel "at" the CP3 inlet. Take a look at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59446 .

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:10 pm

The computer has to tell the fuel pump to make pressure, so are there any codes? Was the timing belt replaced? If the belt failed, then you won't be getting any fuel either. No matter what there won't be fuel pumping out of filter during cranking, it is a suction system unless you installed a lift pump.

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dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

I haven't checked the inlet side of the high pressure pump. Is that the CP3 you reference? But if there is not fuel flowing out of the filter head, then wouldn't it stand to reason there is no fuel any further downstream of that?

How exactly does the fuel system work on these CRDs? I understand there is a lower pressure pump that pulls fuel from the tank via vacuum up and thru the filter and then down to the high pressure pump. And then high pressure fuel is supplied to the common rail. Are both of these pumps mechanical (ie: driven off the engine mechanically)? Are they electrically driven or triggered? It seems like something has caused fuel to stop being pulled from the tank. Shouldn't there be fuel flowing/pumping out of the filter head supply side during crank?

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

geordi wrote:

The computer has to tell the fuel pump to make pressure, so are there any codes? Was the timing belt replaced? If the belt failed, then you won't be getting any fuel either. No matter what there won't be fuel pumping out of filter during cranking, it is a suction system unless you installed a lift pump.

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Got it. Thanks. No lift pump installed. So my bad - makes sense that there wouldn't be fuel flowing out of the filter head - there is no vacuum. Dah.

No, there are no codes. The timing belt was changed by the dealer last May. I have the receipt from the last owner. Its has been running fine ever since.

So if the ECM needs to tell the pump to make pressure, I assume that means it is electrically driven?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:24 pm

I don't trust the dealers. I've seen several "dealer changed" timing belts that were suspiciously old looking when something in the system failed. Absent actual proof, you need to remove the fan and accessories / idlers and pull the front cover. The low pressure fuel pump you are thinking of is also the high pressure pump and is driven by the timing belt. If the water pump pulley or one of the idlers failed, that would take out the belt as well as trash the rockers.

Where are you located?

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dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

geordi wrote:

I don't trust the dealers. I've seen several "dealer changed" timing belts that were suspiciously old looking when something in the system failed. Absent actual proof, you need to remove the fan and accessories / idlers and pull the front cover. The low pressure fuel pump you are thinking of is also the high pressure pump and is driven by the timing belt. If the water pump pulley or one of the idlers failed, that would take out the belt as well as trash the rockers.

Where are you located?

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dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

The dealer that did the service was Rouen Jeep in Woodville OH. They replaced the timing belt, and water pump. Cost was $1472 May 2015

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

Just wondering aloud. I did change the engine mounts last weekend. To get them out I had to really lift (jack from the bottom) the engine way up. It was up hard against the firewall in order to squeeze the mounts out. Wonder if I pulled an electrical connection out part way (it did run for about a week before quitting). Or wonder if I did something to the fuel rail pressure sensor - the one that sits against the firewall. If that sensor goes bad, would it trigger the ECM to (tell the pump to) not build fuel pressure?

olypopper · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:13 pm

Have you checked for codes? If the PCM has a cam position code stored you can bet it's skipped time and broken rockers. When the timing skips, belts loose or broken, the engine won't get fuel for several reasons. First, the injection pump is belt driven. No belt, no fuel. If the cams aren't spinning, no cam signal and again, no fuel. See the reason to check your timing belt yet?

Check codes and post back your findings.

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

olypopper wrote:

Have you checked for codes? If the PCM has a cam position code stored you can bet it's skipped time and broken rockers. When the timing skips, belts loose or broken, the engine won't get fuel for several reasons. First, the injection pump is belt driven. No belt, no fuel. If the cams aren't spinning, no cam signal and again, no fuel. See the reason to check your timing belt yet?

Check codes and post back your findings.

As I mentioned in the OP, there are no codes stored.

So what are the potential root causes of no fuel pressure other than mechanical failure (ie: belt)?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:36 pm

Some things you can try:

1. The CP3 is just below the alternator, bolted to the engine. On top of it is the fuel quantity solenoid. Disconnect the two wire harness connector to the solenoid and then try to start it. Let us know what happens.

2. Connect the 3/8 rubber fuel line on the outlet side of the fuel filter to a cheap inline filter and a funnel or bucket filled with diesel. Let gravity feed the CP3 and see if the engine will start.

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:50 pm

yes you broke the plug at fuel pressure solenoid back of fuel rail ,because in order to replace motor mounts we need to jack up the motor just a bit and remove brackets from and then remove motor mount ,i know we learn every day its just jeep thing nobody undestand . cheers

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

rankom wrote:

yes you broke the plug at fuel pressure solenoid back of fuel rail ,because in order to replace motor mounts we need to jack up the motor just a bit and remove brackets from and then remove motor mount ,i know we learn every day its just jeep thing nobody undestand . cheers

The one at the back of the rail - against the firewall. Which of these is it -

Fuel Pressure Solenoid Valve installs in fuel rail, Jeep Liberty Diesel 2005, 2006 OE 5159964AA

or

Rail Pressure Sensor, in fuel rail for Jeep Liberty 2005, 2006 5159963AA, 68020556AA

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:18 pm

5159964aa i think sensor is ok you just broke the plug , our friend FLASH did replace the plug on his Mprop , valve i don't know if it is the same plug or same as the injector plug or connector plug ?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:32 pm

Here's my problem with thinking that it's a sensor: every time I am putting one of these back together, I refill the fuel rail by manually spinning the high-pressure pump. I get a ton of fuel coming out. Nothing special, just turning the pump fast without the engine or the computer being on. If you had the number one injector high-pressure line disconnected, and you were not getting any fuel coming out of the rail while cranking the engine, then there is something wrong with the timing belt.

You don't have to disassemble the front of the jeep in order to get the timing cover off. Leave the radiator and bumper and grille exactly where they are. It will be a little difficult to remove the fan and the shroud together, but once you've done that, then you only have to remove the idlers, the alternator, and the power steering and crankshaft pulleys. Then the cover is fully exposed. I seriously think you have a problem with the timing belt. You're going to want to get a hold of a set of timing pins, but for a quick test, a couple of quarter inch drillbits will be sufficient. You will need to manually rotate the engine until the Divet in the crankshaft hub is at the 3 o'clock position, and then check to see whether the drill bits or pins will go in to the intake camshaft. If it does, check the exhaust camshaft.

Or, most likely you're going to find that your belt is not even attached. Seriously, I think you have a major mechanical failure going on, since you're not getting anything when manually spinning the pump by cranking the engine. You should be bathing in diesel fuel with that line unhooked.

CRD quit, now just cranks but will not fire

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