Tapping noise from CRD off idle and while driving...

Turbod7 · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:30 pm **Posts:** 6

Hey guys, I'll start off with saying how great this site is! I've spent countless hours reading different posts about these CRD's and the love hate many have with them.

I recently picked up a 2005 CRD limited for a steal of a price. Jeep has 100,565 for miles, owner thought the Engine was seized as did I at first. I couldn't turn the engine over with a 4' breaker bar! I pulled the outer timing cover back to inspect the belt and access the cams. I ever so slightly rocked them back and forth to make sure they moved, which they did. Tried turning the crank again with no luck, I figured for s#*ts and giggles I'd drop a new battery in and see if it would turn over. I bumped the key and it turned over :BANANA:

I did this a few more times to make sure there were no abnormal noises, I didn't hear anything strange so let her rip she fired right up! After running for around 15 min there was a terrible shrieking noise coming from engine, I shut it down. Fired it back up and it was quiet for a few min then same noise. It sounded like the water pump bearing to me. I figured since it was due for a timing belt anyways, I'd do the water pump, idlers and tensioner as well.
Finished up the timing belt/water pump install, added new coolant and fired right up! After running for 45 min no noise! Took it for a quick rip around the block there was no power with lots of smoke (I'm assuming the all to common EGR issues) and heard a tapping/ticking noise that changed with engine speed. At idle it's quiet and runs smooth. So I tried isolating where the noise was coming from with a stethoscope, it seems to be the loudest at the rear cam cover area. I'm just baffled because if I listen under the vehicle it's loud as well

. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this? Hopefully rockers? Do the rockers fail with lower miles like this? Does the sound of failing rockers resonate everywhere?

Thanks for any input!

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:01 pm

Read the signature line...

Unfortunately, if the idle is smooth and not uneven, then the likelihood is that you have a bottom end issue. The engine being "frozen" or seized also is a big concern, and possibly points to a lack of proper oil and changes... Maybe even to trashed main bearings.

Since the engine rotates right now, the opportunity to take it apart and rebuild it is a lot better than if it decides to install some "inspection ports" into the side of the block for you. Then it gets messy.

Welcome to the group.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:11 am

Well, if you post a video there are a number of people on here that remember how broken rockers sounds. But, yes, they do break around 100k often. If you pull the hose off of the FCV and listen, you might hear a hollow ("knock"?) sound, and that would be a rocker or two.
They probably need replaced anyhow though, so you might as well pull the top and see. If they are all intact, then it's time to check the bearings. I think Geordi mentions the bearings because he seems to win the lottery on CRD's with bad bearings, but they are usually just the rockers, especially at around 100k. He's also the guy to have replace them if you don't want to do it yourself.

I wouldn't run that engine again, and I would steer clear of any mechanic that hasn't been inside several of these engines.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:15 am

Oh, I had one that wouldn't turn over like that. It turned out to be a piece of ceramic glow plug in the combustion chamber. I was rocking it back and forth and finally crunch :pepper:

, and I was about to pull the top. Ran flawlessly.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:47 am

I have several videos about broken rockers and other things. Does it resemble any of these?:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-bad-rockers.mp4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-Before.mp4

Both of those were bad rockers, and this is what they sounded like after I got done working on them:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-After.mp4

Now... Here is the more severe problem:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-bottom-end.mov
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-new-tapping.mp4

If you can post a video of yours from a similar perspective (front and center of the engine with the hood up and it idling) then maybe we can help diagnose it too. The thing about rockers and bottom end problems... Neither one gets better with age, just more expensive.

Turbod7 · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:30 pm **Posts:** 6

Thanks guys for the replies, geordi compared to your after repair video my jeep doesn't idle smooth. After watching those videos it does idle a little rough, but could a bad EGR valve also cause a rough idle on these? It sounds similar to one of the lower end videos, but you can't hear the noise at idle so...
Mountainman I still have the original ceramic glow plugs which I plan to replace with the metal 7v ones in the near future. Good thing this jeep is just a project, so if it sits no big deal! I took a couple videos let me know what you think. Sorry a couple of them are around a minute and a half.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmaypr2wj8sgt ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3hqugjrx91mq ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tou0ulf9htq3 ... M.mov?dl=0

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:38 am

Well, the idle was a bit on the uneven side right at the start, it is still a decent possibility that the rockers are shot. That noise could just be poor combustion, but there should be other symptoms too such as smoke. Are there any codes?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:08 pm

I think that's top end chatter. Either rocker or maybe even air in the fuel. They sound terrible when they suck air. I'm not skilled in discerning these video sounds, but I think I hear a scraping sound. It might be a broken rocker eating a cam, and I would inspect the turbo vanes to make sure they aren't loose. The turbos can also fail at 100k if the proper cool down wasn't followed, or maybe wrong oil/infrequent oil changes.

If you pump the fuel primer with vigor while it's running does that metallic clack sound get noticeably quieter? I had one that I did that and it vanished, it was just air. A fuel head that sucks air can make these engines sound like there's a knock.

Although, it is possible to drop a valve while running it with smashed rockers. I'd probably just pull the top for ARP's, as it's not worth destroying what is probably a nice low mileage engine.

Turbod7 · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:30 pm **Posts:** 6

geordi it does smoke quite a bit right now, I got a low boost code after I drove it and it lacked power with a lot of smoke. I was able to get up to 40+ mph. I do not remember the exact P code I had. I do have a glow plug code for cylinder 1 and plan on changing over to the 7v metal plugs as mine are currently ceramic. I did try pumping the primer while it was running with no noticeable difference. It does have the revised fuel head and connector installed.
I'll connect my DRB to it tonight to see what current codes I have and post them. Thanks Again!

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:46 pm

Smoking and low boost are the keys - you should look at buying a set of rockers.

Low boost is b/c the exhaust is not sufficient to generate enough pressure in the turbo for what the computer wants. Not enough exhaust b/c not enough air is being inhaled (bad intake) or allowed to escape (bad exhaust) on at least one cylinder. Smoking is because the amount of fuel being injected is WAY MORE than the air charge can burn, so it burns in the exhaust when it finds more air.

Are you equipped to do the work yourself, or would you like to discuss having me work on it for you? I can do this entire job hood open-to-hood closed in about 10 hours in your driveway, and your CRD will be running again at the end. Where are you located?

The parts you will want to replace for this are as follows:
ARP studs (labor overlaps, and you will want them eventually anyway)
Rockers and lifters
crush washers and o-rings
intake elbow kit
coolant bypass plug
luckily - you already have a brand new belt and timing kit, so you can skip this one.

Tapping noise from CRD off idle and while driving...

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