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any tips for timing belt
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Author:  geordi [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Most dealerships (if they even do it correctly - which is a BIG crapshoot) seem to be charging in the range of $1400-$1600 plus parts. I travel to you, and do it in your driveway for $1400 WITH parts, the only extra is the travel.

Where are you located? That CRD is WAY past the age limit of the belt, they should never be in service longer than 6 years. If you are on the East Coast anywhere, I drive the I-95 corridor frequently - I'm actually leaving tomorrow for NY again and Virginia on the way back.
Author:  Mike92104 [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
geordi wrote:
Most dealerships (if they even do it correctly - which is a BIG crapshoot) seem to be charging in the range of $1400-$1600 plus parts. I travel to you, and do it in your driveway for $1400 WITH parts, the only extra is the travel.

Where are you located? That CRD is WAY past the age limit of the belt, they should never be in service longer than 6 years. If you are on the East Coast anywhere, I drive the I-95 corridor frequently - I'm actually leaving tomorrow for NY again and Virginia on the way back.


I think this clearly spam at this point. Geordi, lately you have offered very little advice, but you always seem to offer your services to any and all new members of this forum. I personally feel this violates the spirit of the forum to help each other deal with issues collectively.
Author:  Lancer [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
I've never done one personally, but the distance limit is 100k miles (although in Europe and Australia I believe the recommendation is 100k kilometres) OR 6 years - whichever marker comes up first.

There are a lot of how-tos and tips for those who feel sufficiently confident/qualified including quite a lot from Geordi who has done a lot of them. Look/search on this CRD section, or the CRD tech section.

As for dealerships charges - no idea in the US although the picture I've developed over the years is that most US dealerships haven't a clue about these engines. Its different over here, because the diesel was the most widely sold in UK and Europe.
Author:  jrsavoie [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Mike92104 wrote:
geordi wrote:
Most dealerships (if they even do it correctly - which is a BIG crapshoot) seem to be charging in the range of $1400-$1600 plus parts. I travel to you, and do it in your driveway for $1400 WITH parts, the only extra is the travel.

Where are you located? That CRD is WAY past the age limit of the belt, they should never be in service longer than 6 years. If you are on the East Coast anywhere, I drive the I-95 corridor frequently - I'm actually leaving tomorrow for NY again and Virginia on the way back.


I think this clearly spam at this point. Geordi, lately you have offered very little advice, but you always seem to offer your services to any and all new members of this forum. I personally feel this violates the spirit of the forum to help each other deal with issues collectively.


People make quick decisions. It is Good that the offer is made upfront so the guy knows Geordi is available. A lot of people do not check through threads to find out.

Would you rather go to dealer and get an unimaginably royal hosing or is it good that Geordi puts himself out there, not only saving people a ton of money, but a ton of frustration as well.

Wish I could have got him when We had our dealer induced basket case. I'm just jealous of everybody that has got him to work on their Jeeps.

People that know how to do the work correctly and posting about helping others with their jeeps is a Public Service announcement as opposed to spam.

These people like Geordi, save people a lot of money and do the job correctly. - Saving them more money, time and heart ache. Just the initial savings over what a dealer charges is huge. And the savings of the results of having a dealer do the work is bigger yet.

Somebody could have saved me thousands of dollars. Of course, had I listened to my wife and stayed away from the Jeep, We would have saved a lot of money, not to mention a lot of time. But she never mentions that. Bless her little heart.


Jeep liberty timing belt installation

http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
MrYates wrote:
I have a 06 CRD. Just picked it up. 110k+ miles. Any good tips when doing a timing belt? How much would a shop charge?


Where are you geographically located at? That's your first item, update your profile. There are many of us who can help, whether it be through PM, posts on this very forum, tool rentals or loans, and there are some of us who have the time, ability, and the tools to either do this job for you or help you through it with minimal stress and hardship (Although usually for compensation, no one's time is free). I've done over a dozen myself for people for varying degrees of payment and have given advice and information and tooling to countless others. That is what the board is here for.

Mike92104 wrote:
I think this clearly spam at this point. Geordi, lately you have offered very little advice, but you always seem to offer your services to any and all new members of this forum. I personally feel this violates the spirit of the forum to help each other deal with issues collectively.


While you are certainly entitled to your opinion sir, you might want to consider the fact that Jim has been a forum member over 7 years longer than you, and for over 4500 more posts than you, and I believe his status here is pretty solidified.
Author:  pjigar [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
OP, Are you interested in doing the job yourself or from outside help? If yourself, then start with a thread in Sir Sam's NOOB guide. There are lots of helpful threads when you will have a specific question. If you are not planning to do the job yourself then I would seriously consider few (3?) of forum members who perform in-home service. No dealer has adequate training and experience to deal with this dying bread of wonderful engine.

[EDIT] For the record, I have done the timing job myself for the very first time on this engine (for that matter any engine). This forum was immensely helpful. Don't forget to read FSM and the timing belt threads multiple times to get a feel for what is involved. Most of us order parts from idparts.com. Replace all the consumables under the hood (all idlers, water pump, alternator pulley, serpentine belt, both tensioners, glow plugs, fan clutch, radiator hoses, boost hoses, CAC hose, fuel head, fuel filter, fuel hoses, etc.) and Weeks kit when you do the TB if you have some extra money. I also did upper control arms and lower ball joints when I did the TB job.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
I am an old mechanic and have replaced many timing belts and chains on motors over the years and never ran into an engine like the Jeep VM diesel. It is a very unique engine in the way you have to perform the timing belt service using alignment pins on the cams and crank flywheel along with locking the cam gears to remove the bolts. I replaced my timing belt, water pump, idler pulleys, and tensioner on the Jeep right after I purchased it. I can tell you from this experience it is very unique in the howtos to perform this service!!!

It should not be performed by anyone who is not willing to study and watch videos on all the details as to the howtos to do it correctly!!!
Allowing one who has performed this task before and is familiar with the unique requirements performing this service is a very valuable service and can be money well spent...

UNDERSTAND, If this job is performed incorrectly by a dealer mechanic or someone else, it can and will destroy your engine!!!! A very expensive mistake indeed and major engine parts are very hard to come by!!!

There are several good YouTube videos one the web that walks you through all the steps to replace the timing belt and water pump. If you plan to tackle the job yourself, I would strongly suggest you watch them several times before tackling the job.. Otherwise, hire someone like Geordi or one of the others, who has done this successfully on many of these engines..Geordi is offering a very valuable service to those who have neither the time, tools, or mechanical aptitude to tackle the job themselves. His posts are certainly not spam and we as a group are very lucky to have him among us... :wink:
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
MrYates wrote:
Wow!!! This place is very helpful!

I'm a traveler, I have a house thats in Dallas, but I'm never home. Today I'm in Houston visiting my daughter. Her husband drives a CRD and showed me this fourm. I haven't driven the CRD much because it still needs new tires. I bought it for a song from an estate sale. A hot rod guy passed and his wife took his truck and aold her CRD. It needs some clean up as she drove up up until I picked it up. She did mention it was due for maintenance. She has kept a log of every fuel fill up and any time a wrench went to the Jeep.

Im gonna do some reading on the timing belt change. I have rebuilt engines before with Dual OHC so its not a big deal.


That's great! Just remember none are quite like this Italian mistress! Read up, ask questions, take your time! If you ask anyone on this board who's done timing work before, this engine is in a league of it's own for service work and design oddities.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
MrYates wrote:
I have rebuilt engines before with Dual OHC so its not a big deal.

So have I, trust me, this engine is different than any other dual overhead cam motor I have ever worked on as the cam gears have no dowels, key-ways or anything else to index them to the cams. The cam gears are bolted onto the ends of slick tapered cam shafts at 80 ft. lbs and have no alignment means. Pinning the two camshafts themselves along with pinning the crankshaft is the only means of timing alignment. The belt must be tensioned with the cam gears bolts slightly loose and everything pinned. Then holding the cam gear one at a time with some kind of a locking tool, tighten the cam gear bolts. The CP3 fuel pump does have an index mark that should be alighted when installing the new belt. :wink:
Author:  geordi [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Everybody - thank you for the very kind words of support, I'm blushing over here. 8)

Mike - I've been to San Diego, didn't I work on yours? Was there something you felt wasn't done to high standards or you had a problem with? As you may imagine, I talk to far more CRD owners than I actually get to meet in person or work on their jeeps, and anyone is welcome to contact me and ask questions - that is why it says that in the signature line.

I am more than happy to advise anyone on doing the work themselves if they feel they are up to it, you don't need to pay me for that. Obviously I have my skills that in person everyone has said are more than worth the cost, and several have suggested that I could charge twice as much and still be a good value. I appreciate that thought (who doesn't like the idea of making twice as much?) but I don't feel that it is right, considering the financial abuse most have already received from these beasts and from clueless dealers.

Take to heart the warnings about the complexity and differences about this design versus any other. I've seen / heard Cummins, Sprinter, Ford, GM, and even big class 8 mechanics ALL say that this design is just GOOFY and unlike anything they've ever worked on before. The Europeans really have a strange way of laying things out. If I was designing it, there are several things I'd certainly do different! The first thing that they have all been told in any training course for a european diesel is "Forget everything you have ever learned about other diesels" and they have all confirmed that this is the case.

The only things it has similar to other diesels is the fact that it drinks the same juice and goes boom on the inside (hopefully) and has a turbo. Not much else matches up! :-)r

Definitely watch the Beesville videos, and LMK when you have questions. As far as your location, I actually had another member contact me from Austin (I've done about 5 in that area already) so if you wanted me to drive out, I can certainly make that happen, and the two of you would split the travel, saving both some cash.

Please be aware that you are on borrowed time for that belt because of the age. If it fails or the timing job is botched somehow, then the timing job becomes a $1500 in parts and 15 hours labor (according to the book) job to fix... And the whole timing job has to come apart and be re-done as part of the procedure. It is a MESS.

--Jim
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Best tips I can think of from a beginner standpoint:

Get a couple 10mm sockets. Seriously, you're going to use the crap out of them. Get some extensions and ratchet wrenches too. 10mm by far will be the most popular size of most everything though.

I prefer to remove the front. I'm a big guy (6'3" 280) and I prefer the room, I don't like to be leaned over with my arms in a small space trying to do this job. Remove the whole front while you do it, it'll allow you to clean the Intercooler stack, replace your radiator fluid, and get that pesky bottom coolant hose while you're in there. (The top one can be replaced any time, the bottom one is much more of a chore.)

I'm going to say this twice to make the point: Don't worry about the cam sprockets! They're not in time, they mean nothing. The cams themselves are what is timed, and they're timed by the pins in them. 1052 and 1053 lock the cams in place. 1089 locks the crank into place. DO NOT USE AN ALLEN WRENCH TO HOLD THE CRANK IN PLACE! It will allow movement. When the crank is properly pinned with the 1089 through the flex plate, the crank will NOT move at all, and you will time everything much more simply. - Just time the CP3 pump where you want it, or 1 tooth short so you can stretch the belt into place. Leave the cam sprockets loose and allow them to move, remember you're going to move where the tensioner is, and where the cam sprockets are, but the sprockets don't matter, and there's no point in marking them because you're in time with the cams themselves and it doesn't matter where the sprockets are. As long as the CP3 and the crank are in time, and the pins are in both cams with the sprockets loosened, you cannot mis-time this vehicle. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE CAM SPROCKETS, and DON"T MARK THEM - Pointless! If you want to mark the crank for your own self security and paint-mark the CP3 for sight reference, I would recommend it.

Replace the idlers! If you want to skimp, skimp on the fan belt idlers because they're easier to get to and they're not going to crush rockers and lifters.

I have now had 1 person who did not want to replace their timing belt idlers when they had the belt done, and they lost the top end because of it 40k miles later when the bearing seized up in the idler and ate the timing belt.

TAKE YOUR TIME!

Get one of those telescopic magnets at the auto parts store. Inevitably you're going to drop a bolt into the axle area and it's going to fall into the stupid cover area and it's going to be a pain to get out unless you have a good "magnet on a stick."

If you're doing rockers/lifters - CLEAN THE INTAKE WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE! Also, I would recommend putting studs on your FCV intake area (trust me).

Clean your MAP filter and MAF filter (if you have questions, read the Noob guide).

I think that's about all I got right now, if you want detailed info or have specific questions, feel free. I've done a dozen now and am nearing the 2nd on my own that I drove off the lot brand new back in 2005.

Good Luck!
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Listen to all the experienced help on this list, all are simply trying to help and advise to keep someone from making a very expensive mistake...
Need advise or got questions, just ask, there are many on here more than willing to help in any way possible... :wink:
Author:  Mike92104 [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
geordi wrote:
Everybody - thank you for the very kind words of support, I'm blushing over here. 8)

Mike - I've been to San Diego, didn't I work on yours? Was there something you felt wasn't done to high standards or you had a problem with? As you may imagine, I talk to far more CRD owners than I actually get to meet in person or work on their jeeps, and anyone is welcome to contact me and ask questions - that is why it says that in the signature line.

I am more than happy to advise anyone on doing the work themselves if they feel they are up to it, you don't need to pay me for that. Obviously I have my skills that in person everyone has said are more than worth the cost, and several have suggested that I could charge twice as much and still be a good value. I appreciate that thought (who doesn't like the idea of making twice as much?) but I don't feel that it is right, considering the financial abuse most have already received from these beasts and from clueless dealers.

Take to heart the warnings about the complexity and differences about this design versus any other. I've seen / heard Cummins, Sprinter, Ford, GM, and even big class 8 mechanics ALL say that this design is just GOOFY and unlike anything they've ever worked on before. The Europeans really have a strange way of laying things out. If I was designing it, there are several things I'd certainly do different! The first thing that they have all been told in any training course for a european diesel is "Forget everything you have ever learned about other diesels" and they have all confirmed that this is the case.

The only things it has similar to other diesels is the fact that it drinks the same juice and goes boom on the inside (hopefully) and has a turbo. Not much else matches up! :-)r

Definitely watch the Beesville videos, and LMK when you have questions. As far as your location, I actually had another member contact me from Austin (I've done about 5 in that area already) so if you wanted me to drive out, I can certainly make that happen, and the two of you would split the travel, saving both some cash.

Please be aware that you are on borrowed time for that belt because of the age. If it fails or the timing job is botched somehow, then the timing job becomes a $1500 in parts and 15 hours labor (according to the book) job to fix... And the whole timing job has to come apart and be re-done as part of the procedure. It is a MESS.

--Jim


You did not work on my vehicle. I'm not debating anybody on how much help you have been to several members on this forum, and I have recommended your services several times. Lately, however, I feel you have been pushing your services more than offering advice. At some point, I believe you crossed the line into advertising a commercial service on this website, and I think that should stop.

Mike
Author:  Mike92104 [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Hexus wrote:
MrYates wrote:
I have a 06 CRD. Just picked it up. 110k+ miles. Any good tips when doing a timing belt? How much would a shop charge?


Where are you geographically located at? That's your first item, update your profile. There are many of us who can help, whether it be through PM, posts on this very forum, tool rentals or loans, and there are some of us who have the time, ability, and the tools to either do this job for you or help you through it with minimal stress and hardship (Although usually for compensation, no one's time is free). I've done over a dozen myself for people for varying degrees of payment and have given advice and information and tooling to countless others. That is what the board is here for.

Mike92104 wrote:
I think this clearly spam at this point. Geordi, lately you have offered very little advice, but you always seem to offer your services to any and all new members of this forum. I personally feel this violates the spirit of the forum to help each other deal with issues collectively.


While you are certainly entitled to your opinion sir, you might want to consider the fact that Jim has been a forum member over 7 years longer than you, and for over 4500 more posts than you, and I believe his status here is pretty solidified.


Lately, a significant percentage of those posts have been to advertise a commercial service on this website, and I feel it violates the spirit of the forum.
Author:  EAB [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
geordi wrote:
Everybody - thank you for the very kind words of support, I'm blushing over here. 8)

Please be aware that you are on borrowed time for that belt because of the age. If it fails or the timing job is botched somehow, then the timing job becomes a $1500 in parts and 15 hours labor (according to the book) job to fix... And the whole timing job has to come apart and be re-done as part of the procedure. It is a MESS.

--Jim


Wow, that can be expensive. What's your warranty?
Author:  geordi [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
EAB: as one forum member helping another, I am happy to offer a guarantee that I will do everything within my power to make sure that both the job is done correctly and to the highest standards, and the CRD is operating better than it ever has, before I leave. While I realize that this is not the same as saying that there is a miles/months warranty, I also have not ever had a need of offering such a warranty. I will say that should there be any kind of issue with the limited services that I offer, I will happily travel back and redo the labor for free. I have also never had to make use of this offer either. I find that, unlike most dealerships, it's better to simply do the job right the first time.

Mr Yates: please don't worry about any special memberships or changes in the cost of the service. As others have said, Mike is certainly entitled to his opinion and I respect his comments, even though I disagree with them. I am happy to answer questions and help people out when they ask for assistance, but the reality of Internet forums is that many people do not use the search function, or the search function is not successful, and they may not realize that skilled assistance is available and that individuals do not have to go it alone relying only on stored knowledge on the forum.

People are certainly free to ask for my assistance, or just ask me questions, realizing that a skilled knowledgebase is available for either desire. I can certainly see where there might be an issue about advertising if I was refusing to answer questions publicly, or telling them I will help but only when they pay. People are not paying for my knowledge, they're paying for my skills and special tricks that I have developed about these engines. Anything that is publicly available for procedures or parts or techniques or modifications, I will happily answer questions about and give people detailed instructions on how to follow the factory procedures. The benefit to hiring me, is simply that I can do these jobs much faster and more reliably than someone attempting it for the first time, because I've worked on so many of them. An assurance of a successful outcome is certainly worth something wouldn't you say?

Feel free to email me or send a private message directly using either of the buttons below this post or any of my posts. We can discuss the details there, if your sons vacation doesn't go through. If however it does, feel free to ask any questions if you have them, and I'm happy to help.
Author:  dirtmover [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Mike92104 wrote:
Lately, a significant percentage of those posts have been to advertise a commercial service on this website, and I feel it violates the spirit of the forum.

First and foremost, Jim has been around here a long time, is a highly respected member in this community, his opinion is highly regarded, he has assisted numerous owners with his mobile services and his experience with this vehicle is second to none.

I do, however, tend to agree with you. By singing up to this forum we all agreed to abide by the same set of rules. The list of contributing vendors is very small and Jim is not one of them so should not be advertising his services here. Allowing him to blatantly continue to advertise for free is not fair to the businesses who are supporting the forum by paying for the right to advertise here.

Now, the reality is that some businesses have such an outstanding reputation and level of support from members here that they don't really need to advertise as the forum members do it for them. GDE and ID are good examples of such businesses. I would include Jim in this group. If he hadn't put himself forward in this thread I'm confident that someone else would have done it for him and that's the way it should be.

For businesses wishing for promotion here the choice is clear, pay up or let your reputation speak for itself.
Author:  jrsavoie [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
MrYates wrote:
Im sorry I got anyone in trouble by asking that question. But I might take him up on the offer if my Son in law doesn't get his vacation approved.

I didn't realize he needed some type of special membership to offer the services. Does that cost extra? Will the price of the job go up?


Check out the Jeep Liberty CRD Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/
Author:  CATCRD [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
Mike92104 wrote:
Hexus wrote:
MrYates wrote:
I have a 06 CRD. Just picked it up. 110k+ miles. Any good tips when doing a timing belt? How much would a shop charge?


Where are you geographically located at? That's your first item, update your profile. There are many of us who can help, whether it be through PM, posts on this very forum, tool rentals or loans, and there are some of us who have the time, ability, and the tools to either do this job for you or help you through it with minimal stress and hardship (Although usually for compensation, no one's time is free). I've done over a dozen myself for people for varying degrees of payment and have given advice and information and tooling to countless others. That is what the board is here for.

Mike92104 wrote:
I think this clearly spam at this point. Geordi, lately you have offered very little advice, but you always seem to offer your services to any and all new members of this forum. I personally feel this violates the spirit of the forum to help each other deal with issues collectively.


While you are certainly entitled to your opinion sir, you might want to consider the fact that Jim has been a forum member over 7 years longer than you, and for over 4500 more posts than you, and I believe his status here is pretty solidified.


Lately, a significant percentage of those posts have been to advertise a commercial service on this website, and I feel it violates the spirit of the forum.


I tend to agree. Unless you're an authorized LOST vendor, people should solicit offline or over PM. If I have an offer to buy or sell a specific thing from another member, I'm going to PM them, not post it in a thread for the general public. To me that's spam advertising.
Author:  joelukex4 [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: any tips for timing belt
While I personally don't care one way or another these are my thoughts:

Jim, you are the only one of the various site members that work on the CRD that posts their price continuously. You have created entire threads relating to trips you are planning to do service on various vehicles. I believe this should be limited offline or using PM's to set up this work. You are advertising a commercial service by soliciting in threads and this should be done elsewhere, in PM's or emails. We have PM'd previously when I was looking for a timing belt service but we kept this to ourselves. By adding to the threads your service it creates unnecessary text that I have to filter through while reading these topics.

Finally I will say this, your thoughts and insights are great and I will continue to read them but hopefully without the unintended advertising.
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