GDE Flash Programmer Tool - Anyone have one to sell?

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 276

Does anyone have a Flash Programmer Tool that they got from Green Diesel Engineering that you will sell? I bought the GDE Eco Tune but am just not finding the time to take my Daily Driver (DD) CRD out of service long enough to mail my ECU to/from GDE.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:59 am

FYI, the programmer is locket to an individual vehicle. You would need to send it back to GDE to get it unlocked.

wilco549 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:20 pm

No, but for the cost of a MPPS cable (I gave less than 20 for mine) you can DIY with a custom tune.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78418

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:04 pm

X2 on what wilco said, the DIY tune is one of the best things available on this forum for out Jeep CRD,s and the cost is less than 25 bucks after buying the MPPS cable off eBay.... :wink:

Many on here have made use of the free tunes available and have been super satisfied with results!!!! :BANANA:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:47 am

The free tunes are a good option, and I have done quite a bit of tuning myself on my own Jeep using the MPPS cable, but I wanna throw a shout out to GDE because they have done a lot more R&D and made many more changes than anyone here can do with any confidence. Things like injection timing and optimal boost levels for cruising(mpg's) and what not. The free tunes do most of the good stuff, like delete EGR/FCV and add some power/boost but they are not as well rounded. Unless someone can get a Jeep hooked up to a dyno and take measurements as they adjust their tune, it just wont be the same.

Disclaimer: I do have a GDE Hot Tune

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Thanks mass-hole. We spent a year developing the KJ tunes on dynos, emission labs, test trips, trailer tow, altitude, etc. There is a valid reason our tune costs more. There might be a few folks on this forum running GDE tunes and the DIY tunes, they could better comment. Our assessment would be seem biased. For comparison, the DIY tune changes maybe 10-30 labels in the software, where we changed about 800 labels.

One of the largest issues on the CRD has been the wearing rocker arms due to soot in the oil. Turning off egr does not help this, tuning the engine combustion to produce less soot in cylinder is how the oil can be kept cleaner. Cleaner oil = less abrasive wear on rocker arms over time.

Fuel economy is one other standout with the GDE tunes. Maximizing the FE requires changing pilot injection events, main timing, fuel pressure and boost in a coordinated manner (trade-offs on a dyno). Doing this with a bench tune is just not feasible.

We develop about one new vehicle application per year as this is how long it takes to accomplish the goals and ensure engine longevity.

justinmc · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:53 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

One of the largest issues on the CRD has been the wearing rocker arms due to soot in the oil. Turning off egr does not help this, tuning the engine combustion to produce less soot in cylinder is how the oil can be kept cleaner. Cleaner oil = less abrasive wear on rocker arms over time.

If that's one of the biggest issues why is only the rocker arms a concern and not the entire engine getting warn out by the soot in the oil?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

justinmc wrote:

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

One of the largest issues on the CRD has been the wearing rocker arms due to soot in the oil. Turning off egr does not help this, tuning the engine combustion to produce less soot in cylinder is how the oil can be kept cleaner. Cleaner oil = less abrasive wear on rocker arms over time.

If that's one of the biggest issues why is only the rocker arms a concern and not the entire engine getting warn out by the soot in the oil?

The rocker arms are the weak link based on the design. The failure mode is a worn support pin that the needle bearings ride on. It's rockwell hardness is not up to snuff and the abrasive soot can collect in the roller bearing area. Other rotating surfaces are also affected by soot, just not as quickly as the rocker arms.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:47 am

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

justinmc wrote:

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

One of the largest issues on the CRD has been the wearing rocker arms due to soot in the oil. Turning off egr does not help this, tuning the engine combustion to produce less soot in cylinder is how the oil can be kept cleaner. Cleaner oil = less abrasive wear on rocker arms over time.

If that's one of the biggest issues why is only the rocker arms a concern and not the entire engine getting warn out by the soot in the oil?

The rocker arms are the weak link based on the design. The failure mode is a worn support pin that the needle bearings ride on. It's rockwell hardness is not up to snuff and the abrasive soot can collect in the roller bearing area. Other rotating surfaces are also affected by soot, just not as quickly as the rocker arms.

Was this something they fixed on the updated rocker arms?

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

I echo the support for Green Diesel Engineering. The amount of research and development required to do a complete job of re-tuning a modern diesel engine for maximum performance and fuel economy simply can not be duplicated by do it yourself tunes.

There probably is little wrong with the do it yourself tunes, and if you have no money to work with I suppose they are O.K. However, my experience with developing the Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001 thermostat assembly for the CRD engine tells me that these modern engines are ALWAYS more complicated than they first appear to be.

The prevailing attitude I keep running into from certain members here on LOSTJEEPS.com is that the cheap solution is "good enough". I can tell you from my research and development of the Model 001 that the cheap alternatives offered as a solution to the problem of the O.E. thermostat assembly are most certainly not "good enough" and can cause serious problems.

I strongly suspect the same is true with engine tunes. When I can finally afford to do so, I will be purchasing my tunes from GDE.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The rocker arms are the weak link based on the design. The failure mode is a worn support pin that the needle bearings ride on. It's rockwell hardness is not up to snuff and the abrasive soot can collect in the roller bearing area. Other rotating surfaces are also affected by soot, just not as quickly as the rocker arms.[/quote]

Was this something they fixed on the updated rocker arms?[/quote]

NO. The revised rocker arm design was just a cost reduction on VM's side, no improvement with the design change.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:50 am

Installing the Green Diesel Engineering Tune is the best thing you can do to this engine.

And also .... do not extend oil changes .... grit forms in this engine quickly no matter what oil you use and the sooner you get the grit out the better.

Grit acts like sand blast media circling around, blasting parts and settling in tight spaces, the filter can't handle it all.

I found that a simple block off plate at the EGR stops some and the tune even more.

I believe that varnish is the other culprit. Varnish around valve stems and guides causes noisy rockers, restricts proper valve movement and may be the cause of snapped exhaust valves. My exhaust valves were covered with heavy soot.

I truly believe that keeping the engine clean of soot and varnish is key for longevity and I use engine cleaners in the oil and injector cleaners in the fuel.

My oil change intervals are 3200 miles and I use Shell Rotella conventional oil 15w-40 in the summer and 5w-40 in the winter. Been over 120,000 miles on two CRDs and the rockers were clean when inspected.

If you want to see the difference in engine smoothness and low tappet noise, try the MMO (Marvel Mystery oil) in the oil and fuel for 2 fill ups... the noise level will drop drastically and the engine will be smooth running.

Don't believe me? Try it. Varnish and soot is the killer of this engine and the sooner you get rid of it the better.

Download a decibel meter and record the sound of the engine before and after..... report back.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:20 am

Just to reiterate what racetracker stated on the use of Marvel Mystery Oil!
He is correct!!!!
Based on one of his posts a few weeks back about engine noise reduction, I decided to try some of the Marvel Mystery Oil in both the engine oil and fuel.
I added 16 oz's. of Marvel Mystery Oil to the engine oil and to the fuel tank each on my Jeep CRD diesel.
I am still amazed at what a difference it made in engine noise at idle, much smoother sounding and not near as loud as it was; kinda purrs now at idle, also does not seem to vibrate as much at idle either! Also bet it is good for those rockers? :shock:

Guess an old dog can learn a few new tricks every once in a while? :ROTFL:

I am definitely sold! Amazing!!!! Only wish I owned a db meter so that I could have recorded and documented the before and after results...

I plan to continue using 2-cycle oil in the fuel as well to help lubricate the CP3 fuel pump & fuel injectors!
I for one appreciated your tip on the MMO....it made a difference...try it for yourself....

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

A measurable difference in noise level cannot be disputed but does MMO actually reduce soot and varnish to a point that it can be measured or even seen with visual inspection or is it just "snake oil". Racertracer, do you see a reduction in grit production or grain size? What about the MPG claims they make, anyone here measured using our vehicle or does this claim only apply to gas engines?

I've tried a few different 3rd party additives and cleaners over the years but have never been overly impressed by any of them yet I keep an open mind. Are additives still valid with modern formulation oils and fuels or just a holdover from from years gone by.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:08 pm

You're asking for measured test results with testing equipment that I can't afford. Can you do the your own research and possibly report back on the snake oil .....? Thanks.

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

I'm not asking you to do anything whatsoever. MMO has been around for decades so I'm sure the research and results are out there. I've not done any searching for this info yet but someone around here might have and would like to share what they found.

You did, however. mention grit. I merely asked you if you'd noticed a difference using MMO. I'm pretty sure I'd notice a difference in the grit left in the bottom of the catch pan after an oil change if the grains were smaller or fewer..

Maybe I will follow your suggestion if I can find some MMO locally.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:32 pm

OK, i got you now.... the only time i saw and felt the grit was at the very first oil changes.... when I first purchased the CRD the whole engine began to get cleaned. It is then that I began to notice gritty black soot between my fingers. it was also sludgy old oil. in those days I would drain the oil every 300 to 500 miles.

It took a while before the noise totally simmered down.... 3 to 4 thousand miles later. there was very little sludge , the engine had been sitting and the oil was thick. Previous owner mistreated it badly. I bought it with 53,000 miles and the CRD was trashed.

It purrs now.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:16 am

Possibly pertinent statements copied from Wikipedia..

Marvel Mystery Oil is a product of the Marvel Oil Company, founded by Burt Pierce in 1923.

After World War I, the Marvel Carburetor Company (Marvel-Schebler Carburetors since 1928) produced carburetors for automobiles and aircraft. Some of these encountered problems and as a result Pierce formulated a blend of chemicals and petroleum to clean and maintain clogged jets. It is claimed without evidence to be beneficial for engines by creating a top ring seal producing higher compression, preventing blow-by on power strokes, resulting in more power.

Marketing literature makes claims about lubricating qualities, cleaning and friction reduction capabilities. However, little evidence exists documenting these purported benefits. The product has previously been marketed for use in all kinds of engines, including aircraft engines. Though the company no longer markets it for use on aircraft on their website. It has also been used in Automatic transmissions, as a leak stopper and seal re-lubrication tool.

However,

It was implicated in at least one aircraft accident where an engine suffered catastrophic damage during take-off after Mystery Oil had been used as a fuel additive. Since Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1014M stated that fuel additives were not recommended and would void the warranty, the NTSB listed the probable cause of the accident as "The improper use of [a] fuel additive which resulted in a power loss."

According to the NTSB post aircraft accident investigation published in 2003, a Marvel Mystery Oil sample tested, was composed of 74 percent mineral oil,(Baby Oil), 25 percent stoddard solvent, (Turpentine, Paint Thinner), and 1 percent lard, (cholesterol).

Edit
I see nothing here that would harm an engine, or any seal or gasket that it would touch. It's even possible that the infinitesimally small amount of lard could present just enough cushion effect to the closing of the valves as to quiet this action, and may even help extend their life. I am not making this statement as a claim or on behalf of the product, just mentioning a theoretical possibility.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:29 am

Please contact me Raff.

Bub

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:41 am

Your using the old cell, email my @live.com instead.

The vehicle has not sold. There's still a lot to do before it is. Engine lights come on.

August 2016 was the first time the engine ran since 2010, and many parts were trashed and needed replacement including the cams, all the brakes fell apart.

The leaky non functional sunroof needs replacement, and according to a few auto body shops the ripped sheet metal on the roof must be welded shut and patched. The cracked windshield, replaced. The wet moldy carpet, stained headliner and interior has to come out. I sourced a few used interior but a 10 year old car and interiors where not any better and hard to come by... I am still looking. It is a time consuming expensive big job that I had no idea of. The tires are flat spotted from sitting for so long and although the tread is good, they cannot be balanced and need to be replaced. This does not include the car carrier shipping charges to New England from New Orleans.

GDE Flash Programmer Tool - Anyone have one to sell?

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