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Poor handbreak
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84125		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  joohn [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Poor handbreak
I have a 2005 CDR its handbrake is so poor it will not hold, I do not use it normally I just use park.

any ideas? john
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
The parking brake is a drum type brake located inside the rear calipers and is the same on the gasser and the CRD. Either a) the brake shoes and or backing plate are worn out and need replacing or b) there is too much slack in the brake cable so that the shoes are not being pulled tight against the drum. To adjust for the latter see viewtopic.php?t=14757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=adjust+emergency+brake&start=15 and/or viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19141

Hope this helps.
Author:  JD3020 [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
Could be the same problem as mine. 120k miles and the rear brakes were all original. Pads were wore out so i did new calipers/pads/rotors. When i pulled the rotors off the passenger side brake shoes looked decent, but the drivers side were gone All that was left was the steel shoe, no brake material. Actually just reminded me that i need to order new shoes for it.
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
papaindigo wrote:
The parking brake is a drum type brake located inside the rear calipers and is the same on the gasser and the CRD. Either a) the brake shoes and or backing plate are worn out and need replacing or b) there is too much slack in the brake cable so that the shoes are not being pulled tight against the drum. To adjust for the latter see viewtopic.php?t=14757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=adjust+emergency+brake&start=15 and/or viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19141

Hope this helps.

Makes me smile when I look at those old posts and see no rust on the Jeeps... Back then this Jeeps were brand new...
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
JD3020 wrote:
Could be the same problem as mine. 120k miles and the rear brakes were all original. Pads were wore out so i did new calipers/pads/rotors. When i pulled the rotors off the passenger side brake shoes looked decent, but the drivers side were gone All that was left was the steel shoe, no brake material. Actually just reminded me that i need to order new shoes for it.

On mine, the shoes came off and we're dangling in the drum, causing some crazy noises and occasionally braking the rear wheels. The adjustment bracket was also stuck. It was a true delight taking it out and cleaning it...
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
I think that this is an ongoing problem with all KJ Libertys, both CRDs and gassers. I made some phone calls to local auto parts stores and to a couple of stealerships as well. It appears that the CRDs and the gassers all use the same brakes.

I have had problems with both of my CRDs where the handbrake was not applying very firmly, and also not releasing properly; resulting in overheated rear brakes. In both cases there was damage to the backing plate and retaining pins that hold the parking brake hardware in place. I managed to get them repaired without having to go to the dealership to replace the backing plate assemblies, (sold as "assemblies" -- of course... the price per side up here is $550.00 CDN!!). :shock: :shock:

Unlike a standard drum brake, the backing plates of a disc brake/drum hand brake combination is not nearly as heavy, and are subject to damage/deterioration due to corrosion. They do not need to be as heavy because the braking torque from the rotor is not taken up by the backing plate, but by the caliper and the cast iron arm that the caliper is bolted to. With rear disc brakes that have drum parking brake mechanisms in them, the backing plate merely has to hold in place the parking brake shoes and related hardware.

Apparently the manufacturer does not care that the parking brake will not work properly if the backing plate or pins rot out a few years down the road, or perhaps they DO care because they want you to either...

1) ... spend a ton of money at the parts counter of your local stealership.

2) ... give up and go purchase a new vehicle.

I personally think this was done deliberately by the manufacturer with the knowledge that they would indeed rot out eventually, and the owner would be stuck with a huge repair estimate. I am looking to address this issue with a permanent direct replacement aftermarket solution, just like I have done with the CRD engine thermostats. 8)

I first need to determine exactly what the situation is in the U.S. regarding rear disc brake backing plates...

1) Are the rear disc brake backing plates for KJ Libertys dealer-only parts?

2) If so, how much are they, and are they sold as an assembly?

If there are only O.E. parts available and they are ridiculously expensive as they are up here in Canada, I need to determine if there is a large enough market to cover the development and machining costs for stamping dies, which will run between $15,000.00 and $30,000.00 CDN. This means I need to find out from LOSTJEEPS Members if there truly is a call for this.

The parts I am looking to manufacture would be made of heavier gauge 316 stainless steel. The idea here is to manufacture a permanent solution to the problem of rear backing plates and pins rusting out and causing all kinds of problems with the parking brakes; a heavier gauge 316 stainless steel backing plate and retaining pins should be ticket to accomplish this. I am trying to get a price that is significantly lower than what the dealer charges for an O.E. assembly, and offer the customer a vastly superior product.

Are there still a lot of KJ Liberty owners experiencing rear hand brake problems, and is it enough of an issue for them to consider a high quality aftermarket product?
Author:  turblediesel [ Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
My parking brake was worthlessly loose from the factory. Gave them an adjustment when I had it up on jackstands.

I think Jeff's right on #1 and #2. You'd certainly get some customers for stainless backing plates in the rust belt. I'm going to get mine bronzed now that I know how valuable they are.
Author:  lacabrera [ Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
I have/had problems with the hand brake. Sometimes I wonder if its worth taking a step backwards and fitting the axle/drum brake version fitted to the first KJ. To date replaced the discs, new brake shoes, small parts, callipers and pads. Next will be a new hand brake lever that seems to jump up from time to time. Mine being a manual you tend to need a descent hand brake on hill starts. On a plus side the backing plates on mine look ok.
Author:  t0rquey [ Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
Sorry for the n00b question, but does the caliper bolt to the backing plate too? I think I read about a bunch of XJ guys with the 8.25 wanting to do the KJ disc swap but ran into an issue sourcing the backing plates. Or maybe I've huffed too much gasoline from my (still happening) XJ days?
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
t0rquey wrote:
Sorry for the n00b question, but does the caliper bolt to the backing plate too? I think I read about a bunch of XJ guys with the 8.25 wanting to do the KJ disc swap but ran into an issue sourcing the backing plates. Or maybe I've huffed too much gasoline from my (still happening) XJ days?


Never apologize for asking such a question... how are you supposed to know if you do not ask? 8)

The rear brake caliper does not bolt to the backing plate, but rather to a cast iron arm that is bolted to the axle behind the backing plate.
Author:  joe_ [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
1) Are the rear disc brake backing plates for KJ Libertys dealer-only parts?

2) If so, how much are they, and are they sold as an assembly?

Shortly after I bought my Jeep, I was doing some brake work as one of the rears was squeaking. When I pulled off the calipers and rotors, I discovered that one of the previous owners had removed the parking brake shoes and related hardware - all that remained was the backing plates with the end of the cable dangling behind them. I was able to order the entire assembly - backing plate w/ shoes and all related hardware pre-installed - for about $120 USD per side from wholesalemopar.com. This was in November 2015, however, and now I'm seeing them listed at $297.50 USD per side, with an MSRP of $417 :shock: . Wermopar.com is listing them at $301.86 USD per side, with an MSRP of $430. Obviously someone at Chrysler had some fun jerking the prices around in the past few months.

The part numbers I ordered are 52128414AC and 52128415AC, though I'm not sure which part number is the right side and which is the left.

As a sidenote, I've found Chrysler parts catalogs here: 2005 KJ | 2006 KJ. These are very helpful when trying to find part numbers.
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
joe_ wrote:
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
1) Are the rear disc brake backing plates for KJ Libertys dealer-only parts?

2) If so, how much are they, and are they sold as an assembly?

Shortly after I bought my Jeep, I was doing some brake work as one of the rears was squeaking. When I pulled off the calipers and rotors, I discovered that one of the previous owners had removed the parking brake shoes and related hardware - all that remained was the backing plates with the end of the cable dangling behind them. I was able to order the entire assembly - backing plate w/ shoes and all related hardware pre-installed - for about $120 USD per side from wholesalemopar.com. This was in November 2015, however, and now I'm seeing them listed at $297.50 USD per side, with an MSRP of $417 :shock: . Wermopar.com is listing them at $301.86 USD per side, with an MSRP of $430. Obviously someone at Chrysler had some fun jerking the prices around in the past few months.

The part numbers I ordered are 52128414AC and 52128415AC, though I'm not sure which part number is the right side and which is the left.

As a sidenote, I've found Chrysler parts catalogs here: 2005 KJ | 2006 KJ. These are very helpful when trying to find part numbers.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH, joe_!!! :D

This is precisely the kind of feedback I am looking for, so your efforts are much appreciated. 8)

Do you think it is possible to get that $120.00 USD per side price again? Perhaps they made a pricing error when you bought them at that price, or maybe the $297.50 price is the wrong price.

I really need to be absolutely certain what the lowest price that the entire assembly - right and left side - can be purchased for. If the price is reasonable, then there really is no point in trying to manufacture a superior replacement backing plate and pins.
Author:  dirtmover [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
t0rquey wrote:
Sorry for the n00b question, but does the caliper bolt to the backing plate too? I think I read about a bunch of XJ guys with the 8.25 wanting to do the KJ disc swap but ran into an issue sourcing the backing plates. Or maybe I've huffed too much gasoline from my (still happening) XJ days?

Hmm, that KJ->XJ swap is an interesting thought. You can get a conversion kit for the 8.25 XJ for about $500-$600 which contains brackets, backing plates, shoes, springs and hardware, calipers, pads and rotors for both sides. Basically a completely new set of rear brakes. I wonder if one of these kits would bolt directly onto our KJ. OK, you're not saving anything but you're getting a lot more stuff for your money and it's all consumable parts that we're going to have to replace anyway.
Author:  joe_ [ Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
Do you think it is possible to get that $120.00 USD per side price again? Perhaps they made a pricing error when you bought them at that price, or maybe the $297.50 price is the wrong price.

I really need to be absolutely certain what the lowest price that the entire assembly - right and left side - can be purchased for. If the price is reasonable, then there really is no point in trying to manufacture a superior replacement backing plate and pins.

Unfortunately I don't think it's possible to get that cheaper price again. Both wholesalemopar.com and wermopar.com had similar pricing at the time, and both have jumped dramatically. The MSRP listing was also dramatically lower on both sites at the time - in my experience, this is generally the approximate price the local dealer charges when ordering parts in person at the parts counter. I'm guessing either someone at Chrysler decided to play with profit margins, or stock was running low and was reordered at a higher supplier price than the previous batch.
Author:  joohn [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
I have finally fixed the poor handbrake, stripping it I found there was no brake material left on the steel shoes, it had not been worn off as the steel was unmarked, it must of come unstuck and worn away.

First time I have done this I replaced the shoes and the disk pads, took it for a spin and found it stinking hot when I came back. The problem was a build up of rust on the inside and outside edges of the disc, I removed all the rust and all is fine now.

Just a leaking power steering rack to sort out!

thanks for the help.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
joohn wrote:

First time I have done this I replaced the shoes and the disk pads, took it for a spin and found it stinking hot when I came back.



I just did all my brakes and had the same problem with stinking hot rear brakes.
I had installed new rear disks so the problem was not rust or anything on the disks.
Turned out that the rear calipers were sticking.
I replaced them and everything has been much better.

Just keep an eye/nose on those rear brake calipers.
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poor handbreak
Think at the bright side: when rear brakes drag and get hot, the water will evaporate and dry out the dust cover/back plate so it won't rust.

Mine are rusty inside but like new outside. Didn't seem serious damage other than surface rust. Plan is to clean and coat them when doing the rear locker this spring-summer.

Jeff, you're nuts, lol. If I were you, I'd start making those lever thingy that is connected to the parking cable and handbrake shoes. It seems it tends to rust through the coating and gets stuck, pushing the shoes in the drum.
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