Ball Bearing CRD turbo

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:01 pm

I thought i would start this thread so that the title would better reflect the contents of it.

I spoke to the machine shop today and they are enthusiastic about it. They kept the factory center section to start measuring. The first couple units will be machined from solid, but we are looking for a 3D printing company that can 3D print metal for production purposes later.

There will also be 2 types of turbos available, a standard turbo that will directly replace the factory unit, and a high performance turbo that will be designed for higher power output at a better efficiency than the standard wheel.

Ill update this as things develop further

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:36 pm

So are you planning on making a direct bolt up turbo or are you making center sections that we will swap out?

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:52 pm

Would it work to use a Wicked Wheel ll for the factory sized replacement? I have been thinking about a Wicked Wheel ll in mine and switch the the GDE Hot tune. I was going to contact Keith to see if he thought that would provide enough air to eliminate the slight smoke seen with the hotter tune. I have the ECO full torque right now.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:17 pm

These will be drop in replacements or you can send your turbo in and have a new center section installed. I realize some may be fully capable of swapping the housings yourselves but that leaves the chance that someone might ding a wheel or bend a vane. Then install it and wreck the turbo and then come bashing my door down wanting me to replace there engine.

The wicked wheel is nothing more than a copy of the original wheel, it just looks better. They significantly added some length to the blades claiming this adds more air, it does not. It makes the wheel heavier and takes more shaft hp to spin (its common to see compressors requiring 30-40hp to make boost), but since most people dont understand how a turbo gets its power they buy this hook, line, and sinker.
My wheels will also copy the factory wheel somewhat (ill never be able to afford the team of engineers that refined its design) but it will weigh less which takes less shaft hp which makes the whole system more efficient. Where the wheel loses it weight it will be opened up to truly be able to handle more air, not just more blade length tacked on. If it sounds confusing it will be clear when i get the first wheel made an show all 3 wheels (factory, wicked wheel, my wheel) side by side so you can see the difference.

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:35 pm

I will look forward to seeing the comparison. Reading about the Wicked Wheel, they claim less weight and more air volume in the compressor. That was why I am interested. I believe what you are saying, you have done way more diesel modifying than I have.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:32 pm

I guess i should go on record, wicked wheels are not bad wheels, they just do a good job of marketing them when they're not any better than stock.

These turbos are actually using more jet engine technology than anything. The bearings, the way they're oil'd, dampened, and preloaded all stem from gas turbine technology. These should outperform anything on the market.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:09 pm

This is good news, hope you are successful. With FCV delete, no cat, flowmaster exhaust, and hot tune, the turbo is one of the limiting factors to produce more power....

APC9199 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:00 pm

I'm interested to see where this goes. My last Jeep had a turbo that was getting questionable from a shaft-movement perspective. The one I just bought has the tightest turbo I have seen so far, but there is always a hesitation in the back of my mind when I hit the throttle hard in traffic or offroad. I can almost hear the bushing crying in pain and telling me to stop. I'm not sure why I feel this way about these turbos but I have never felt like they were strong enough to take more abuse than daily driving allows. That being said, I know very little about turbos to begin with!

If, at any point, you need help from another CNC shop let me know. I can usually turn things around fairly quickly if I need to, and you can't find someone else to do it.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:38 pm

The tolerences on these bearings are tight. The bearings require a 12 micron interference fit on the shaft +/- 1 micron. For anyone that doesnt know how small a micron is, there are 25.4 microns in 1 one-thousandths of an inch.

If these can be made like i want, i can machine different backplates for different vehicles. Basically this will become a ball bearing conversion for any engine that uses a gtb family of turbos, that includes the 15,17,20, and 22 size turbos. All ill have to do is install what ever mounting plates are needed to run the factory compressor and turbine housings for that vehicle, whether its a VW, Sprinter van, a Mercedes etc. This means that factory manifolds, oil lines, tubing, everything will be undisturbed while still raking in all the benefits of a bb turbo.

Atleast thats the dream. I dont know if the machine shop can keep up with that demand if it gets that far, and then theres also the risk of them seeing the market and trying to sell the turbos out from under me.

All i can do is take it day by day...

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:47 pm

Yeah, I'm not playing with microns. I can typically handle stuff down to +/-0.0005" without too much trouble. Just thought I would throw it out there. I spent years feeding off of everyone else here when I took my first dive into the CRD world, and I like trying to give back whenever I feasibly can. Keep us updated!

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:27 pm

Microns are only for the center section, other than that there will be housings to machine as i want to copy the gtb2056vk generation (ours are gtb2056v) with the vanes in the center section. While im in this frame saze i might as well make it adaptable to cover the new 3.0L in the ram ecodiesels as well as the grand cherokees.

We'll see how things progress from here first, but ill let ya know as soon as i need something. Like you, i feel this community makes it possible to own and maintain these vehicles. Otherwise we'd be left with dealer fixs and bills, so it feels good to hopefully contribute back.

These turbos are probably the next weekest link that hasnt been addressed yet, if this project can pan out and sustain itself id love to tackle a new head design. More importantly make it beefier than it is, followed by intake ports that all come in from one way, probably the top.

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:42 pm

im game... just keep us updated, also do you want some of us to be using different size turbos to get more information from each turbo?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:58 pm

The next size would be a 60mm wheel which will require the compressor back plate and compressor housing to be machined, not a big deal it gets done all the time. From there we have to go up a turbine size to a gtb2260, it would be slightly bit more laggy in the low end but would put out more in the higher end.

I will need a couple test vehicles in the future, but i will have it on an abuse rig first that will run it at max temp and rpm for a couple hours straight. This will test the bearings, 4 hours straight of 190,000 rpms is more time that turbo will ever see at that high of an rpm, ever, and is where most bearing wear will occur. From there my itll go on my crd for 10,000 miles and then a teardown and inspection. If all is well then i will release a couple out to test. Im going to guess it will be somewhere in the july range before i get a prototype.

3D cad drawings should be here in the next couple weeks for all to look at.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:33 pm

In for being test vehicle :pepper:

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:02 pm

The people that will reap the biggest differences will be those who tow and are at higher elevations. Even pavement warriors will notice the reduced spoolup time but not as much as those who tow, would be nice to get one in a cold climate like alaska or dakotas, and one in a hot climate like arizona, new mexico.

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:30 pm

ill be a test rig too and im close to keith's shop as well

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:14 pm

FYI, not only am I in Arizona, but I'm at 5600' elevation. Typical temps in the mid 80's during the summer with a few weeks into the 90's and even 100's. I also drive south to Phoenix and Sierra Vista (4000' elevation) regularly, as well as north to Flagstaff, Grand Canyon etc (6500'+). I need to upgrade my TC though. I'm on a mild DIY tune and it is enough to tear up the TC when in lockup. I know it wouldn't handle the extra boost from a better turbo. I don't tow all that often, but I'm always tearing up dirt roads going places I probably shouldn't be.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:52 pm

The turbo will have more power potential than the stock turbo, but its main difference will be that the boost will come on sooner and will be made more efficiently.

What does everyone think a fair price would be for a better than factory turbo? Just curious where everyones minds are at price-wise.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:29 pm

If it's a totally new, built from the ground up turbo, then $1000 is fair.

If it's a rebuilt/upgraded factory turbo where I have to supply a "core," then $500-600 seems fair.

Or maybe I don't understand how these are supposed to be produced/assembled.

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:56 pm

Is there any chance that the new turbo could be water cooled to lessen the cool down time?

Ball Bearing CRD turbo

Who is online