Ball Bearing CRD turbo

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 pm

Yes they will most likely be watercooled, mostly just to make sure the oil passages wont cook the oil inside of them. The orings will be capable of 615F continous and the bearings good for 1800F. Also the center cartridge will be made out of stainless which has really poor heat conducting properties. Also there will be some sort of fiber/ceramic gasket between the plate that the exhaust housing will bolt to and the center cartridge, to also help reduce the amount of heat soak-back

Ive tried to engineer as much longevity into it as possible.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:01 pm

Got a quote from the bearing place, $220 each, theres 2 per turbo so thats roughly $440 just for bearings. I ordered enough to do a couple turbos, plus roughly $150 for the high temp o-rings. The cost of these probably wont change much, neither will the $100 turbine and $150 compressor (guessing), but the machining cost will change substantially once a batch goes through.

It should be pretty obvious that these will cost more than the factory turbo, but why wouldnt they if they perform better and last the lifetime of the vehicle. Plus nothing has to be changed, everything fits and looks just like factory.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:16 pm

Clearly I did not understand what was required for making these turbos.
Will the factory compressor and turbine housings be re-used?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:33 pm

The original housings can be reused, or the turbo can be supplied all new. My goal price is $1,500 complete. More expensive than factory, but some guys on here are on there 2nd and 3rd turbo.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:20 pm

That sounds reasonable.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:58 pm

The watercooling may be an easy solution for those of use that have installed Weeks Stg 2 kit and removed the EGR or eliminated the cooling line that crosses over the top of the motor. If you have done either of those than you should have the spare "Y" fitting and could use that to send coolant to the turbo. its only about a 1.5' run to the turbo.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:37 pm

Yep that would work, personally i was gonna use the coolant bypass hose that runs from the tstat to coolant tank.

Im gonna run the first turbo without any watercooling so i can see what kind of temps the center housing gets up to to make sure everything will be ok in case someone doesnt want to run water cooling.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:39 pm

Am awaiting an offial "ETA" for the bearings, but the general timeline is 14 weeks which puts them getting in around the last week of June. Also found and ordered custom, high temp o-rings capable of handling a continous 620°F. This is above and beyond what is expected, but its safe insurance against the thousands of heat cycles the turbo will be exposed to over its lifetime.

I also contacted a 3D printing company near me (Solon, Ohio) and they will 3D print the prototypes out of stainless steel. They should be able to do a couple at a time to help lower the cost.

Ill touch base with the machine shop monday, but the CAD designing should be getting started about now. Will hopefully have something to show soon.

NorthwoodsMike · **Joined:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:00 pm **Posts:** 39

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Yep that would work, personally i was gonna use the coolant bypass hose that runs from the tstat to coolant tank.

You won't want to use the bypass, as it closes when the Tstat opens. You may want to use the heater core port instead, since it's always open.

I'm really enjoying following this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MM53 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:30 pm

Auberon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:04 am

This is a good thing.
As we should all regard these as a wearing part (need to mention and I have no issues yet) I would be certain to (in time) look at running such a unit (probably the higher performance unit you mention if I read correctly). Indicated pricing so far is fair.
Am interested in even having one on the shelf here. I do that with various parts given my remote situation for some items.
Given it would be for export - mine is a keeper vehicle - would appreciate you putting some thought unto that aspect please.
Don't want to go to DPF's on top of what we have had to contend with.
Now we just need a CAC heavily improved.
Cheers

olypopper · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:01 am

Auberon wrote:

Now we just need a CAC heavily improved.
Cheers

Amen!

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:37 am

If your engine uses the same turbo as ours in the US then it should work. if its different id need to have one in my hands.

Ive been wanting to do the cac for some time now, i have everything needed to do it, i just lack a spare unit to work on. I think we'd be better off ditching the factory cac though. Its too tall and makes a lot of air travel along ways, a shorter, thicker unit would work best where the air has a shorter path but just as much surface area to cool.
I need to do some measuring to see what size could fit where, but the end tanks could be 3D printed for the best in efficiency, possibly even lower production cost. Air doesnt like to bend around sharp edges and corners that a typical fabricated-from-sheet end tank.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:41 pm

Are we gunna run into performance issues with the hot side before the cold side? I thought I recall gde thinking that the gt2056 turbine was too restrictive.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:56 pm

mass-hole wrote:

Are we gunna run into performance issues with the hot side before the cold side? I thought I recall gde thinking that the gt2056 turbine was too restrictive.

I dont see why.
The stock turbo seems to work pretty darn good.

Also, why do you feel water cooling is necessary?
Not that I'm against water cooling. I think its a good idea. But why is it necessary

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:06 pm

I asked about water cooling, because it would be convenient to be able to pull in to park and not have to wait for the exhaust to cool off. I don't want to burn the oil in the turbo bearings.
On my Jeep unless I have coasted a ways into a parking spot my pre turbo temp is still 450 or a little more.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:27 pm

tcoilburner wrote:

I asked about water cooling, because it would be convenient to be able to pull in to park and not have to wait for the exhaust to cool off. I don't want to burn the oil in the turbo bearings.
On my Jeep unless I have coasted a ways into a parking spot my pre turbo temp is still 450 or a little more.

Ok, I get that.
But how much cooler will it get with water cooling?
And, wont you still need coolant circulating through it for a minute or two before shutting off the motor?

IOW, which is better.
Cooling the turbo with 200 deg engine oil or 200 deg engine coolant?

Edit:
I think I found the answer. Specific to ball bearing turbos.
Because ball bearing turbos require less oil for lubrication, the oil alone is not enough for cooling. Water cooling is required. Therefore, water cooling does not eliminate the need for turbo cool down time.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:48 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

If your engine uses the same turbo as ours in the US then it should work. if its different id need to have one in my hands.

Ive been wanting to do the cac for some time now, i have everything needed to do it, i just lack a spare unit to work on. I think we'd be better off ditching the factory cac though. Its too tall and makes a lot of air travel along ways, a shorter, thicker unit would work best where the air has a shorter path but just as much surface area to cool.
I need to do some measuring to see what size could fit where, but the end tanks could be 3D printed for the best in efficiency, possibly even lower production cost. Air doesnt like to bend around sharp edges and corners that a typical fabricated-from-sheet end tank.

I got some turbo to manifold gaskets out of the UK, and they had a different bolt pattern, turned out to be a waste of money. I got them from VM Specialist, and they could not get the US version. They never really gave me much of an explanation, but it looks like they use a different turbo anyhow, FWIW

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:56 pm

It will be watercooled, although it really isn't necessary. The bearings take such a tiny amount of oil there isnt enough oil to coke up.
The housing will be made of stainless steel which is not very good at transferring heat. A ceramic fiber insulating material with a 2300°F rating will be used where the housings mate to further resist heat soak-back.
The o-rings that help support and dampen the bearings are special custom ones rated for 620°F, needless to say cool-down periods *should* be a thing of the past.

If the gt20 turbine wheel is too small we could always throw in a gt22 turbine and open up the turbine manifold to suit. i think we have enough displacement we could drive it, possibly even a 60mm compressor wheel for the most power potential.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:25 pm

Mountainman wrote:

diesel_guy86 wrote:

If your engine uses the same turbo as ours in the US then it should work. if its different id need to have one in my hands.

Ive been wanting to do the cac for some time now, i have everything needed to do it, i just lack a spare unit to work on. I think we'd be better off ditching the factory cac though. Its too tall and makes a lot of air travel along ways, a shorter, thicker unit would work best where the air has a shorter path but just as much surface area to cool.
I need to do some measuring to see what size could fit where, but the end tanks could be 3D printed for the best in efficiency, possibly even lower production cost. Air doesnt like to bend around sharp edges and corners that a typical fabricated-from-sheet end tank.

I got some turbo to manifold gaskets out of the UK, and they had a different bolt pattern, turned out to be a waste of money. I got them from VM Specialist, and they could not get the US version. They never really gave me much of an explanation, but it looks like they use a different turbo anyhow, FWIW

I ran across a Jeep Liberty manifold on UK ebay that had what looked similar to a T25 turbo flange. It was square and the bolt pattern seemed to be symmetical

Ball Bearing CRD turbo

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