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First Jeep, first diesel
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Author:  BoarX [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  First Jeep, first diesel
Hello all,

As per subject, complete noob here, quite gas car DIY savvy, but never dealt with diesels. Looking for a tow vehicle for a boat. Need to pull approx 4000lbs. I figured Liberty CRD was the best fit despite the age (anyone to prove me wrong? :) ). I know pretty well what to look for while shopping for used cars, but what would be good checking points or signs of trouble with this particular CRD engine?

On a separate note, I clearly need a tow package. As far as I heard, there is OEM one with hitch and transmission fluid cooler, however is stock hitch load-levelling? Or maybe I shouldn't bother and plan on getting an aftermarket hitch and transmission cooler?

And yes, I have been through noob guide - impressive!

Thanks in advance to any info!
Alex
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
First off, WELCOME!

Second i would look for service records, if no proof of timing belt change plan on an extra $500 to cover parts and tools. If its over 150,000 miles i'd be willing to bet 0w-40 oil was used its while life (its whats recommended in the manual but most of us use 5w-40) and your rockers are shot, another $400 in just parts.

Start the engine and let it run for a minute and shut it off, open the hood and pop the coolant tank cap, if theres pressure then most likely theres a blown head gasket. Another $500 in just parts.

Definitely drive it, if it shift hard around the 2-3 gears it either needs more fluid or filters changed. get up to 60-65 caually, then roll on the throttle without letting it downshift, if the vehicle shudders the torque convertor is shot, this is kinda rare now but you never know.

Cycle the 4wd lever, not enough use has caused some linkages to freeze up.

Under the hood, to the immediate left side of the brake booster is the fuel filter. Youll see 2 wires on top, the right one is the fuel heater. If its blue it has the updated fuel filter head. If its all black unhook it and look in it, one of the pins will be burned, id use this to negotiate the price down some, a new one is $120 on amazon.

The hose going from airbox to turbo rot just before the turbo on the bottom, the other rubber hoses from turbo to intercooler, and intercooler to engine rot also, cheapest is $160 for all 3.

Thats all i can think of based on the most common posts ive seen on here.
Author:  olypopper [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
I can think of many many many other vehicles that would be better tow rigs than a CRD liberty.........they tow just fine, it's stopping heavy stuff they don't do well at.

Hopefully you have decent wrenching skills because if you don't, the CRD will eat your lunch via hourly shop rate.....not to mention you can't find anybody that knows anything about them. This site is a God-send and most problems have been documented and fixes have been well established.

Take care of the basics first like timing belt, water pump, rockers and transmission upgrades like torque converter and valve body upgrades (trans-go shift kit). I also highly recommend ARP head studs AND a head gasket just for preventative measures, especially if the history is unknown........not trying scare you off, just my opinion.
Author:  BoarX [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
Thanks guys, very useful info! The wrench is my friend, otherwise I wouldn't even consider 10 yo vehicle with unfamiliar engine! As for better towing vehicles, they surely are a plenty. However at least among friendly boat haulers diesels seem to be much preferred over gas engines. Main reasons are better torque and smaller gas mileage penalty when towing. 4-wheel drive is also a necessity for pulling boats up the steep ramps. This narrowed my search quite a bit and since I am also not a fan of monsters, here I am :)

Cheers,
Alex
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
All KJ CRDs with an automatic transmission came with a tranny fluid cooler (in bottom of AC condenser not radiator). Tow "package" was just a 7 wire power port and plug and a 2" receiver hitch with ball mount; not load leveling. If you are towing 4,000lbs the CRD will do fine but best have brakes on the trailer.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
X2 on the brakes:
I've towed 8,000 pounds (crazy, or stupid) over Donner Pass, and I had to pull off a few times to let it cool down, and drive really slow, and about died going down it do to inadequate brakes, but the transmission never got hot.
No need to do anything for 4,000 except like they said, a brake upgrade of some kind would be nice, and that's only if you have some serious hills to go down. I am pulling around 6k on a regular bases on major grades with stock brakes and no trailer brake, but I gear down and take it easy. I'm going to upgrade my rotors and pads to make pulling 6k more comfortable. But, I drive down some seriously long grades.
oh, I'm also going to add a single arm load stabilizer so I can drive faster than 55 mph, but that's with 6k+ where it gets crazy. Also, I have a lift, and that makes it less stable with the really heavy loads.
Author:  flman [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
I love my Libby CRDs, but I think I would have picked a different diesel for teeth cutting. But if you are okay with working on gassers you should be able to keep it running, especially with the help of this forum and the vendors.

GDE
HDS
Sasquatch
ID Parts

to name a few.
Author:  mass-hole [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
I've towed my buddies Mastercraft X1 wakeboard boat that probably weighed around 5k lbs with the trailer. It was stable but the biggest downfall was power. At highway speeds it had trouble with some of the hills on I-93 in NH and required that I almost floor it to keep things moving. You need HP to tow hills and the Jeep simply doesn't have it even with a tune. Compact cars are making 200hp these days so imagine trying to move a 5000lb SUV with 5000 lbs of boat behind it up a hill with the same power. . . .

On flat terrain it was fine since it does make a good amount of torque and can lug its way along. At 70mph you are right in the peak torque rpm range. The thing is, once you get past 2500 rpms this motor doesnt make a whole lot more power, just noise and some smoke.

Braking was fine but the trailer had surge brakes. I had to slam on the brakes after a cop, who was directing traffic at a cross walk, decided to jump in front of me with his hand out as I came down a hill doing 50mph. he could have waited 5 seconds for me to go by but it was vitally important that I be the one to stop. Nothing bad happened.

I would say a GDE hot tune and a GDE transmission tow tune would be good options. The stock transmission tuning is very hesitant to kick down from 5th gear once it locks up at highway speed. The GDE towing trans tune will keep it in 4th gear longer and my guess is it also kicks down at lower throttle.

Oh, almost forgot, my jeep did not come with a 7 pin trailering harness(but came with a aftermarket hitch?) so I bought the OEM one and installed it myself. It was a fairly easy install, no more than 30-45 minutes if you read through the instructions first. All CRD's have the same cooling system regardless of whether or not they came with the tow package. i would not pass up a good deal on one just because it doesnt have a hitch or wiring.

So basically, dont expect it to be an excellent tow vehicle. Its a short wheel-based, lighter weight, low power vehicle. Its great for running around town and occasionally towing but it would not be my first choice as a dedicated tow rig. If you really want a diesel Jeep for towing then look for a 2007-2008 Grand Cherokee CRD. Those make a lot more power tuned than these Liberty's do.
Author:  tcoilburner [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
As long as your good with working on the Jeep your self, they are a joy to drive.
Using them to tow will require patience when getting close to max. rating. It probably won't win the race, but it does a good job. This is my summer fun. Image
I am at the maximum 5000 pounds when towing. Yes, long steeper grades may slow to 50mph, but getting 14-15 mpg pulling. Then 25-29 empty is what I love about it most.
Author:  BoarX [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
Mountainman wrote:
X2 on the brakes:
I've towed 8,000 pounds (crazy, or stupid) over Donner Pass, and I had to pull off a few times to let it cool down, and drive really slow, and about died going down it do to inadequate brakes, but the transmission never got hot.
No need to do anything for 4,000 except like they said, a brake upgrade of some kind would be nice, and that's only if you have some serious hills to go down. I am pulling around 6k on a regular bases on major grades with stock brakes and no trailer brake, but I gear down and take it easy. I'm going to upgrade my rotors and pads to make pulling 6k more comfortable. But, I drive down some seriously long grades.
oh, I'm also going to add a single arm load stabilizer so I can drive faster than 55 mph, but that's with 6k+ where it gets crazy. Also, I have a lift, and that makes it less stable with the really heavy loads.


Wow! That's impressive! Not that I am planning on anything remotely similar, but who knows? Life is unpredictable and your experience just boosted my confidence in this Jeep! :)
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
no problem, I think you should be pleased with towing 4k or so. Beyond 5500 or so it gets to where you are limited in your max speed, to 55 or so, but I wasn't using a stabilizer set-up, so that would probably make 65 mph doable, but it still may be dangerous. I had a few death-sways going downhill, that I was luckily able to accelerate out of at full throttle, not cool, or smart :grim: Next CRD I pick up with my CRD and HD tow dolly I will use a stabilizer bar.
Author:  turblediesel [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
All these guys are right.

Dealer might give you a free tow hitch as part of a recall to protect the fuel tank. They might even give you $100.00. Of course they might not but it's worth a try.

Good luck with your CRD!
Author:  4Factor [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
diesel_guy86 wrote:
First off, WELCOME!

Second i would look for service records, if no proof of timing belt change plan on an extra $500 to cover parts and tools. If its over 150,000 miles i'd be willing to bet 0w-40 oil was used its while life (its whats recommended in the manual but most of us use 5w-40) and your rockers are shot, another $400 in just parts.

Start the engine and let it run for a minute and shut it off, open the hood and pop the coolant tank cap, if theres pressure then most likely theres a blown head gasket. Another $500 in just parts.

Definitely drive it, if it shift hard around the 2-3 gears it either needs more fluid or filters changed. get up to 60-65 caually, then roll on the throttle without letting it downshift, if the vehicle shudders the torque convertor is shot, this is kinda rare now but you never know.

Cycle the 4wd lever, not enough use has caused some linkages to freeze up.

Under the hood, to the immediate left side of the brake booster is the fuel filter. Youll see 2 wires on top, the right one is the fuel heater. If its blue it has the updated fuel filter head. If its all black unhook it and look in it, one of the pins will be burned, id use this to negotiate the price down some, a new one is $120 on amazon.

The hose going from airbox to turbo rot just before the turbo on the bottom, the other rubber hoses from turbo to intercooler, and intercooler to engine rot also, cheapest is $160 for all 3.

Thats all i can think of based on the most common posts ive seen on here.


I highlighted some text about headgasket leak test in the quoted message above... is this correct?? If there **IS** pressure in the reservoir then gasket is blown? Seems like you'd have a blown gasket if there's **NO** pressure. Not nitpicking, just clarifying because I'm about to check over a CRD (gonna buy it) and I'd love to use this test if it's somewhat accurate.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
The engine has to be cold for this test, if the engine only runs for 30 seconds to a minute it doesnt produce enough heat for there to be any pressure rise in the coolant.

However, If the head gasket is blown some of the compression stroke from the leaking cylinder will force some pressure through the head gasket and into the coolant system. This air will collect at the coolant tank and is what will almost blow the cap off when you take it off.

I would take the cap off and "zero" out the system before you start it too, that way if there is pressure you know its from the test you just did.
Author:  Rixram [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
BoarX wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
X2 on the brakes:
I've towed 8,000 pounds (crazy, or stupid) over Donner Pass, and I had to pull off a few times to let it cool down, and drive really slow, and about died going down it do to inadequate brakes, but the transmission never got hot.
No need to do anything for 4,000 except like they said, a brake upgrade of some kind would be nice, and that's only if you have some serious hills to go down. I am pulling around 6k on a regular bases on major grades with stock brakes and no trailer brake, but I gear down and take it easy. I'm going to upgrade my rotors and pads to make pulling 6k more comfortable. But, I drive down some seriously long grades.
oh, I'm also going to add a single arm load stabilizer so I can drive faster than 55 mph, but that's with 6k+ where it gets crazy. Also, I have a lift, and that makes it less stable with the really heavy loads.


Wow! That's impressive! Not that I am planning on anything remotely similar, but who knows? Life is unpredictable and your experience just boosted my confidence in this Jeep! :)


I used to have a Searay Seville 210 MC. On the trailer with fuel and "stuffs", it was a full 5K lb tow. You want to make sure you have trailer brakes. That aside, it towed great.

Mountainman wrote:
no problem, I think you should be pleased with towing 4k or so. Beyond 5500 or so it gets to where you are limited in your max speed, to 55 or so, but I wasn't using a stabilizer set-up, so that would probably make 65 mph doable, but it still may be dangerous. I had a few death-sways going downhill, that I was luckily able to accelerate out of at full throttle, not cool, or smart :grim: Next CRD I pick up with my CRD and HD tow dolly I will use a stabilizer bar.


The Equalizer tow hitch has a weight distributing unit designed for towing a boat trailer, and still allows the surge brakes to function as designed. I have one, and swear by it!

On one occasion, a friend had failed to get his boat towed as a hurricane was bearing down on us. That one was a 25" Four Winns 258. Fully rigged, it was about 7,200# (boat, trailer, provisions and "stuffs"). I pulled it with my Lib CRD. Granted, I did it only at slow speed (under 35 mph), due to the fact I was way over the weight rating.

Are you saying that you are looking to buy one? I will be selling at least one of mine soon, in case you're interested.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
You weren't over the weight rating at 7200 lbs, only what the idiot Chrysler lawyers in the USA decided. The CRD is actually rated for 5000 KILOGRAMS which is 7700 lbs for the rest of the world.

I personally have pulled a generator that weighed over 7000 lbs just by itself, and then had 500 feet of 4-0 cable (about 4 lbs per ft) in the back of the jeep or roped to the generator - that means I was pulling about 9000lbs around. THAT, I didn't take very far or fast. But a smaller big generator that I pulled around, that one was about 6000 lbs. I got about 17mpg pulling that, at 60mph! Yes, both generators had their own brakes, surge brakes. I wouldn't have pulled either of them very far, but they handled very well. The Jeep could definitely feel them, but didn't seem to be struggling at all.

Working on one film project (coincidentally with the smaller of those two generators) I also got the "opportunity" to assist the recovery of a fully-loaded 10k lb cube truck that the idiots had driven into a mud pit without scouting the route first. Then they managed to dig it in nearly to the axle hub once they started slipping. Ah, students. :roll:

The CRD grunted and dug its claws into the mud, and yanked on the chain and managed to pull them out. It is a tough truck when it wants to be.
Author:  Rixram [ Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
geordi wrote:
You weren't over the weight rating at 7200 lbs, only what the idiot Chrysler lawyers in the USA decided. The CRD is actually rated for 5000 KILOGRAMS which is 7700 lbs for the rest of the world.

I personally have pulled a generator that weighed over 7000 lbs just by itself, and then had 500 feet of 4-0 cable (about 4 lbs per ft) in the back of the jeep or roped to the generator - that means I was pulling about 9000lbs around. THAT, I didn't take very far or fast. But a smaller big generator that I pulled around, that one was about 6000 lbs. I got about 17mpg pulling that, at 60mph! Yes, both generators had their own brakes, surge brakes. I wouldn't have pulled either of them very far, but they handled very well. The Jeep could definitely feel them, but didn't seem to be struggling at all.

Working on one film project (coincidentally with the smaller of those two generators) I also got the "opportunity" to assist the recovery of a fully-loaded 10k lb cube truck that the idiots had driven into a mud pit without scouting the route first. Then they managed to dig it in nearly to the axle hub once they started slipping. Ah, students. :roll:

The CRD grunted and dug its claws into the mud, and yanked on the chain and managed to pull them out. It is a tough truck when it wants to be.

Not to nitpick, but 5000 kg is 11000 lbs. And the Euro rating is something like 3400 kg, aboit 7200 lbs.
But the issue is that if I were to have an accident while knowingly exceeding the manufacturer rating, insurance could legally opt to not cover me.

That'd be bad.

Sent from my N9810 using Tapatalk
Author:  geordi [ Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
Rixram wrote:
Not to nitpick, but 5000 kg is 11000 lbs. And the Euro rating is something like 3400 kg, aboit 7200 lbs.
But the issue is that if I were to have an accident while knowingly exceeding the manufacturer rating, insurance could legally opt to not cover me.

That'd be bad.

Sent from my N9810 using Tapatalk


You are correct on both points - My math was bad, that is the Euro rating of 3400 or 3500 kg, for about 7200 lbs.

As far as the insurance angle, you are correct on that too, but my experience with insurance has been no matter what the situation, they will do anything in their power to NOT pay out a dime, so I never count on any support from them.

Perfect example: A couple weeks ago, I was slammed into from behind by an idiot that admitted to the responding officer that she had been staring into her rearview mirror at a person holding up a cellphone - concerned that this person might hit her. Instead, she hits me. Most of the damage happened to her SUV, thankfully. Mine only has minor scuffing and some hidden plastic damage.

Come to find out that she has handed her insurance a line of horse pucky that I "changed lanes and cut her off before slamming on my brakes" and her insurance has decided that I am at fault and is trying to pursue ME for payment. I was hit from behind while I was not moving. She admitted this to a cop. They still decided that I am at fault.

Process that for a while, and then you will start to understand my feelings about insurance companies. There is a very real possibility that my insurance will actually decide to pay her for her bullshiit, and I have no way of compelling them to deny her for fraud. It doesn't matter to my insurance company, they will simply raise my rates and I will get screwed again. :banghead:
Author:  BoarX [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Jeep, first diesel
Guys, thanks for all the info and encouragement! She is in my driveway! "She" is in sailor speak, though my wife immediately started referring to the new Jeep as "him" (male). I suspect this is that rare occasion when she might know better :)

Cheers!
A.
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