CRD puzzle--what mods were done?

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

Update: PO was able to confirm that it was a Weeks. GDE tune was NOT done subsequently. Hence the fudged CEL. Not sure what to say about the idle flare and lack of smoke, as some have suggested.

He also revealed the nature of The Knob: a fuel tuner from TS Performance.

Here's the install sheet for that tuner: http://media.wix.com/ugd/82d8bc_34ebc6b ... a22ffb.pdf

I called TS Performance to try to understand what the tuner is doing, and they said "it makes the computer think the engine isn't providing enough output" thereby tricking it into producing more. It plugs into the MAP sensor and the fuel pressure sensor. I can't totally see how this could be related to the DTC I'm getting, but maybe one of you could splain me.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:11 pm

I would ask TS performance if their tuner causes an idle flare. If not, then one of the previous owners got the GDE tune. I'm assuming that the guy you bought it from wasn't the only PO.

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

Correct, there was at least one previous previous owner. The guy I bought it from owned it for about 6 months. He did the Weeks and the TS Performance, but says he did not disable the CEL. Which is a mystery, because if somebody before him did an ECU tune, why would there still be DTCs, and why would that person disable the CEL?

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

TS Performance says their mod does not cause an idle flare.

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

Update: Idle flare is gone. Not sure what happened that other time, but the last 3-4 starts have had no such thing.

Update: cleaning the TCM connector with 99 gallons of electronic parts cleaner fixed the rough shift. BIG GOLD STAR to the person who posted that solution.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:57 pm

dang, oh well. That previous previous owner might have been a crook that wanted to deceive the buyer... If anyone sells a vehicle and doesn't disclose that they've disabled the CEL for any reason, they're a :furious:

as far as I'm concerned. I have a dash unit for a limited for cheap if you need one. Not sure if the lights are replaceable?

cody.vandieren · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:04 pm

Mountainman wrote:

If the RPM's spike to 1200, you probably do have the $500 GDE tune. I once had a tuned jeep that I had to call and talk to Keith about, and he was able to find it. I knew the previous owners name, and he asked for it, so that might have been how he found it.

I've never heard of a self tune that changes the startup idle spike like that.

The FCV is unplugged and no CEL? That's usually the newer GDE tune, hmm. The older tunes didn't suppress the FCV CEL.

puzzle indeed

More questions about this RPM spike and GDE tune.....
My CRD spikes to 1200 at cold start up. I have EGR disabled via ORM mod and no CEL but I have EGR codes logged in the ECU when i read codes with a scanner. So with a tune will codes be logged in the ECU or does my CEL not work???
I am the 3rd owner of it so I dont have a lot of history on it.

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

Agree with you on the crook part. The guy I bought it from bought it from a dealership (used) so somebody is not being honest about something. Very annoying, but it looks like no major malfunction in the Jeep at least. Nothing this forum can't fix

The question remains about the tune: what does a GDE or other tune do for the vehicle other than shut off the CEL? I've read a lot on here, but everyone seems to take it for granted that it's a good thing to do. I'm not aiming for squeezing every ft-lb of torque out at $500 a pop. I'm not towing anything heavier than a bike rack. But I do need this to be a reliable off-road vehicle for work (Search and Rescue). If you can convince me of the merits of a tune OTHER than more HP and more torque, I'm all ears.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:19 pm

cody.vandieren wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

If the RPM's spike to 1200, you probably do have the $500 GDE tune. I once had a tuned jeep that I had to call and talk to Keith about, and he was able to find it. I knew the previous owners name, and he asked for it, so that might have been how he found it.

I've never heard of a self tune that changes the startup idle spike like that.

The FCV is unplugged and no CEL? That's usually the newer GDE tune, hmm. The older tunes didn't suppress the FCV CEL.

puzzle indeed

More questions about this RPM spike and GDE tune.....
My CRD spikes to 1200 at cold start up. I have EGR disabled via ORM mod and no CEL but I have EGR codes logged in the ECU when i read codes with a scanner. So with a tune will codes be logged in the ECU or does my CEL not work???
I am the 3rd owner of it so I dont have a lot of history on it.

You sir, are the lucky owner of a GDE tune. The ORM isn't doing anything, because the GDE tune eliminates the use of that sensor, and unplugging it won't trigger a CEL :rockon:

Not sure if the EGR fault is logged, but I think I read that it is logged a long time ago. Someone with more knowledge will probably chime in.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:27 pm

bootstrapper wrote:

Agree with you on the crook part. The guy I bought it from bought it from a dealership (used) so somebody is not being honest about something. Very annoying, but it looks like no major malfunction in the Jeep at least. Nothing this forum can't fix

The question remains about the tune: what does a GDE or other tune do for the vehicle other than shut off the CEL? I've read a lot on here, but everyone seems to take it for granted that it's a good thing to do. I'm not aiming for squeezing every ft-lb of torque out at $500 a pop. I'm not towing anything heavier than a bike rack. But I do need this to be a reliable off-road vehicle for work (Search and Rescue). If you can convince me of the merits of a tune OTHER than more HP and more torque, I'm all ears.

It makes the viscous heater operate much less, it makes your temp gauge linear, and most importantly, it makes the injection events much more efficient, resulting in more power, better MPG, AND less soot to eat the rocker arm bearings. Worth every penny and then some. I didn't flinch when it was 600, and I think it's 500 now.
The only painful consideration, is that you may need to replace the torque converter to handle the tune. That might be $250 and a lot of curse words if you can do it yourself, or a lot more if you have to pay a shop to do it. But, either way, the +4mpg and less engine wear will make the tune pay dividends.

cody.vandieren · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:29 pm

Mountainman wrote:

cody.vandieren wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

If the RPM's spike to 1200, you probably do have the $500 GDE tune. I once had a tuned jeep that I had to call and talk to Keith about, and he was able to find it. I knew the previous owners name, and he asked for it, so that might have been how he found it.

I've never heard of a self tune that changes the startup idle spike like that.

The FCV is unplugged and no CEL? That's usually the newer GDE tune, hmm. The older tunes didn't suppress the FCV CEL.

puzzle indeed

More questions about this RPM spike and GDE tune.....
My CRD spikes to 1200 at cold start up. I have EGR disabled via ORM mod and no CEL but I have EGR codes logged in the ECU when i read codes with a scanner. So with a tune will codes be logged in the ECU or does my CEL not work???
I am the 3rd owner of it so I dont have a lot of history on it.

You sir, are the lucky owner of a GDE tune. The ORM isn't doing anything, because the GDE tune eliminates the use of that sensor, and unplugging it won't trigger a CEL :rockon:

Not sure if the EGR fault is logged, but I think I read that it is logged a long time ago. Someone with more knowledge will probably chime in.

Hmmmm.... cool. I may give GDE a call to confirm. :BANANA:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:53 pm

Yeah, and if it's the newer tune, you can gut the EGR crap without any CEl's. Otherwise $50 for the update and you're set.

bootstrapper · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:29 pm **Posts:** 13

Mountainman wrote:

It makes the viscous heater operate much less, it makes your temp gauge linear, and most importantly, it makes the injection events much more efficient, resulting in more power, better MPG, AND less soot to eat the rocker arm bearings. Worth every penny and then some. I didn't flinch when it was 600, and I think it's 500 now.
The only painful consideration, is that you may need to replace the torque converter to handle the tune. That might be $250 and a lot of curse words if you can do it yourself, or a lot more if you have to pay a shop to do it. But, either way, the +4mpg and less engine wear will make the tune pay dividends.

But doesn't the EGR delete take care of the soot and thereby the majority of the engine wear?

I'm certainly not trying to be snarky, but my quick math says that going from 25mpg to 30mpg is roughly a $0.01 per mile savings with fuel being $2/gal. That means recouping a $500 tune + $250 TC + $250 shop time (probably not doing that one myself) = $1000 will take 100,000 miles. I can maybe see a benefit if I do the eco tune, no TC, and buy more expensive fuel...

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:38 pm

But doesn't the EGR delete take care of the soot and thereby the majority of the engine wear?

--not according to GDE, and I think the lack of smoke out of the tailpipe is proof.

I'm certainly not trying to be snarky, but my quick math says that going from 25mpg to 30mpg is roughly a $0.01 per mile savings with fuel being $2/gal. That means recouping a $500 tune + $250 TC + $250 shop time (probably not doing that one myself) = $1000 will take 100,000 miles. I can maybe see a benefit if I do the eco tune, no TC, and buy more expensive fuel...[/quote]

--Diesel will probably average more like $3 a gallon over the next decade, and then there's the engine wear. If you're a savvy investor, you might win by buying CVX and Exxon with that cash, and with compound interest/rolling the dividends back in, you'd probably be ahead of the game. But, if the money just gets spent on something else, then the tune is a winning investment. Just my opinion. I want my engine to last forever, so I do all sorts of expensive mods, but I buy oil stock also :jester:

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

bootstrapper wrote:

More driver's side photos:
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... qanwxs.jpg
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... ekjbjb.jpg

Based on these photos it's still not possible to tell. Here is a diagram that makes it pretty clear what's removed by each kit:

joe_ · **Posted:** Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:55 pm

bootstrapper wrote:

Now I have to figure out how to replace the CEL too...sheesh.

I haven't pulled one of these clusters apart, but according to the service manual, the 'check engine' light is an LED which is soldered directly to the circuit board inside the cluster. Since LED indicator lights generally don't burn out, it was probably physically removed from the cluster, meaning that in order to get it working again, you're either going to be replacing the cluster, or grabbing an LED and having some fun with a soldering iron.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu May 26, 2016 9:01 pm

I just bought a new to me crd liberty with 94,000 miles, 3 previous owners, one being a dealership for a year, I own three other crds two with ged tunes. The one bought recently had no check engine light on but cel did not work at start up so cel does not work. I asked and was not told this before driving over 600 miles one way to pick it up. I also asked many other questions from a checklist including do all the window roll up and down and was told yes but back left didn't. Long and short is I negotiated lower price to cover this after checking OBD for codes and there were none and driving it for thirty minutes and rechecking OBD still no codes.

It does not have a GDE tune as I am familiar with it.

I also unplugged MAF and no CEL which of course shouldn't come on if it does not work at startup.

I read up on the forum quite a bit and it seems as if it either has :

1. SEGR
2. Non-functioning LED such as LED burnt out
3. Removed LED for CEL

Are there any other possibilities or suggestions?

Interesting to note on carfax steering column was replaced at one time. (I wonder if this was actually replacing neutral switch on column which I replaced on another one.)

Any help appreciated.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2016 12:01 am

TKB4 wrote:

I just bought a new to me crd liberty with 94,000 miles, 3 previous owners, one being a dealership for a year, I own three other crds two with ged tunes. The one bought recently had no check engine light on but cel did not work at start up so cel does not work. I asked and was not told this before driving over 600 miles one way to pick it up. I also asked many other questions from a checklist including do all the window roll up and down and was told yes but back left didn't. Long and short is I negotiated lower price to cover this after checking OBD for codes and there were none and driving it for thirty minutes and rechecking OBD still no codes.

It does not have a GDE tune as I am familiar with it.

I also unplugged MAF and no CEL which of course shouldn't come on if it does not work at startup.

I read up on the forum quite a bit and it seems as if it either has :

1. SEGR
2. Non-functioning LED such as LED burnt out
3. Removed LED for CEL

Are there any other possibilities or suggestions?

Interesting to note on carfax steering column was replaced at one time. (I wonder if this was actually replacing neutral switch on column which I replaced on another one.)

Any help appreciated.

For both of you, possibly a bad connection on the ECU plug for the CEL pin. If you look at the pins really close, you might find a darkened/crispy pin. I was able to fix one with a tiny piece of sand paper and some battery protector (dielectric?), and I ever so slightly bent the pin so it would make better contact in the female side which was also damaged from the arcing. I haven't looked at the pin out for the CEL signal (mine was a fuel rail sensor), so I may be way off on this...

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:11 pm

Thanks for suggestion . Will look at the ECU plug

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:41 pm

checked ECU plug and no change but used dealer also told me all windows worked and when got there passenger side rear window worked few days before. I just got around to putting in steiger replacement part Thursday and when I removed panel window was wired closed. Someone wasn't telling the truth as i suspected. Wouldn't be surprised if they disabled CEL either physically or otherwise.

By the way you trainmen I believe GDE charges $100 to update tunes now at least thats what their website indicates, I know it used to be $50.

CRD puzzle--what mods were done?

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