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CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84312		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bootstrapper [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
Hi folks- first post! (Yes I read the noob guide--thanks for that great info.)

I just bought an 05 CRD with 124k, and I'm trying to figure out what work was done on it before. The PO only owned it for a couple months before he resold it, so he doesn't have any records. I can see for myself that the EHM was done--garden hose venting to atmosphere. He told me some other interesting things:

"The EGR was deleted, but the ECU wasn't flashed, so it shifts hard between 1st and 2nd." (I can confirm hard shift, mostly when it's cold)

"I added a fuel tuner that lets you adjust the amount of fuel going to the engine: more for more power, less for better economy." (There's a little unlabeled knob on the dash, but I can't really tell a difference in the way it drives depending on the position of the knob.)

Here's what I'm wondering:

- Was the timing belt done? Probably, since the PO before the PO apparently put some work and money into it, but I know there's no way to be sure, so I should probably have it done again. Right? He did say he changed the oil and got a new fuel filter about 1k miles ago.

- Is there any way to tell what kind of EGR mod was done? (No CEL on)

- Is there any way an EGR mod would make it shift funny?

- Where would I look to try to trace this mysterious fuel tune knob? Is this a thing? I can't find anything about it on the forums.

Like many people here, I'm wrenchy but new to this engine. Thanks in advance for your help, and any pictures you could include in your reply would be a major help for me.
Author:  Mountainman [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
no on the EGR thing, but I would start it and see if the RPM's jump up to about 1200, or how ever high it is, and that tells you it has a GDE tune, which is money in the bank.

I would look for a plug in tuner, not sure where they plug in, but someone else can advise you better on this.

The hard shift might be fixed by adding some fluid, but it's most likely the spin on transmission filter, as some didn't have the necessary drain back check valve, or whatever it's called, and so changing your fluid and putting the correct filter (I think you want Wix?) that has the check valve should solve the problem.
But, you could have transmission problems, and I'd advise finding a hemi transmission with the torque converter, and getting a GDE tune. This is if you have "burnt" transmission fluid, or the hard shift turns out to be internal trouble. You can upgrade parts on these, but if you could score the transmission, torque converter, (and TCU?) for around the same price, less, or even a bit more, you might get a really good deal. There's a thread from someone on here that has already pioneered the newer transmission venture, as they have some anodized parts where the 05-06 didn't. I think you need the TCU though to make it work.

You can pop the front cover and see if there is a shiny new belt, slightly "sticky" rubber, but even if it is obviously new, who knows if they replaced all of the pulleys. So, I would get the cheap timing pin kit, or make your own, pin the cams, and feel all of the bearings if the belt is shiny without any noticeable wear. If the bearings all feel good (if you're a good judge of such) and the water pump front half has shiny new looking aluminum (depending on road conditions and climate for sure, it can be tough to tell) and there's no noticeable play in the shaft, and some bearing drag, then maybe you call it all good, and run it for 50k, or so. Or, you just buy the kit and replace it since you've already done virtually all of the work to inspect it all by then, and you're not supposed to retension the belts. Or, you call in Geordi who can do it right for a better price than a dealership who will likely destroy your engine and blame you, seriously :furious:
Author:  bootstrapper [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
It idles at about 800. Is that what you mean?

The trans fluid looks nice and clean, and full.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
When it first starts, GDE tuned engines will rev up to 1,200rpms and then settle down to normal idle.

The knob you described sounds alot like this thread: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83129
Author:  bootstrapper [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
diesel_guy86 wrote:
When it first starts, GDE tuned engines will rev up to 1,200rpms and then settle down to normal idle.


Didn't know that. I'll look next time. Thanks.

diesel_guy86 wrote:
The knob you described sounds alot like this thread: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83129


Hmm. There's no boost gauge for sure. Any other way you can think of I could verify this? Don't want to blow up my turbo fiddling with the knob...
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
Carefully inspect all the wiring and sensors on top of the engine. Odd looking wire splices are a clue as to what has been modified. Take pictures too so we can see them.

EGR deletion has nothing to do with transmission shifting. If no codes and no tune, then there is no way to verify if the EGR has been deleted unless you can see that the EGR valve is missing. If you can get some pictures of the EGR valve area it might be helpful.
Author:  ChesterCRD [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
The EGR delete may have been done with the SEGR mod. IIRC, the kit included a black project box like this: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/B ... 5-/28-8690 usually mounted under the drivers side dash with velcro. If UFO (another member who assembled many of the kits for ppl) assembled it, he provided black loom for the wiring through the firewall and suggested knocking out a grommet and wiring up to the ECU through there. If the wiring under the hood was done correctly, it's nearly impossible to see unless you know exactly where to look.

And welcome to CRD ownership. ;)
Author:  bootstrapper [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
Update:

I don't see any project box under the driver side dash. I couldn't see anything that looked like extra/new/DIY wiring under the hood either, everything looks properly loomed. But there was this one connector just waving in the breeze not connected to anything:

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... b0ve4m.jpg

When I start it, it jumps to 1200 but only for a split second, then falls down to idle at about 900. As in, when it starts, the tach swings up and immediately back down. It tops out around 1200 but doesn't stay there, if that makes sense.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
spike to 1000+ on startup is the classic signature of Green Diesel Engineering tune

- send them a PM and they'll let you know what kind

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/Welcome.action
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
That PM or email to GDE needs to include your VIN#
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
bootstrapper wrote:
Update:

I don't see any project box under the driver side dash. I couldn't see anything that looked like extra/new/DIY wiring under the hood either, everything looks properly loomed. But there was this one connector just waving in the breeze not connected to anything:

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... b0ve4m.jpg

When I start it, it jumps to 1200 but only for a split second, then falls down to idle at about 900. As in, when it starts, the tach swings up and immediately back down. It tops out around 1200 but doesn't stay there, if that makes sense.


In that picture, whats disconnected looks like the FCV connector. Its safe to leave that disconnected.

Looks like you might have the Weeks101 intake elbow kit (this would be your EGR delete).
But its really hard to see. Gonna need a better picture of the stuff on the drivers side of the engine.

On left side of that picture I see some non factory wiring harness. Its very well made but not factory.
Looks like its all connected to the MAP sensor.
Author:  mass-hole [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
If he put a tuning box in then it would likely be connected to the fuel rail pressure sensor and the MAP sensor. It just intercepts and alters the signal that the sensors send to the ECU to make the ECU think the fuel pressure and boost pressure is lower than it wants, so it increases them to try and get the signal it desires. So basically the ECU wants to run the fuel at around 23000 psi but with the tuning box the rail pressure may actually 24-25000 psi. Higher pressure means more fuel gets injected and you gain more power.

If you do have a GDE tune then having a tuning box on top of that could be a problem. It could be exceeding the safe limits for boost and rail pressure when the two are in combination.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
I to agree from that pic the wire not plugged in is for the fcv. It also looks like you have a weeks kit(egr delete). If no check engine light than you have a tune. I'd call gde and give them your vin and he will be able to confirm.

There are also debates on here wether the elephant hose mod is good for our jeeps. I believe it messes with the needed crankcase pressure and can cause potential harm. Do some searching and make a decision on that. But either put it back to stock or get a provent.

As for the mysterious knob, I'd say start at the knob and try and trace the wires.

Also the egr has no correlation to the transmission. The cheapest/easy try to fix it to add more fluid. These perform better with more fluid. Next would be to try and change both filters. If that doesn't cure it then I'm afraid it's the start of tranny problems
Author:  weeks101 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
You definitely have a Stage 1 intake elbow kit.

Not sure if you have a Stage 2 full EGR delete kit. (Cannot tell for sure without a good photo of the driver's side engine block.)

If your CEL is off and you do not have a tune (as others said, check with Keith@GDE by proving your VIN), then the previous owner disabled it via SEGR or by literally removing the CEL bulb. The CEL should come on momentarily at start up. If it doesn't, you need a new bulb and should look into a GDE tune. If the CEL does come on at startup, you most likely have a tune or a SEGR.

None of this effects shift points.
Author:  bootstrapper [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
More driver's side photos:
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... qanwxs.jpg
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s46 ... ekjbjb.jpg

You guys are amazing. Keep the great advice coming, I can smell an answer...

Except I don't like the answer. Weeks101 was spot-on: the CEL does NOT illuminate at startup. Don't know how I missed that obvious clue before.

I also asked GDE and Matt couldn't find the VIN in their database.

Soooo... Weeks stage 1, probably no tune and probably a fudged CEL. Right? What do you recommend for next step? Weeks 2 is only $65. That wouldn't change the ECU, but would it be a good idea?

GDE/Malone looks like $500. Yikes. Are they that much better than the free DIY tunes out there? I'm not trying for 100% max performance, just a reliable long-lasting Jeep that doesn't suck.

Now I have to figure out how to replace the CEL too...sheesh.

As for the EHM: am I right in understanding that leaving the CCV stock and simply replacing the turbo hoses with Samco is good enough? It seems like the "oily mist" coming from the stock CCV isn't so bad for the turbos or the engine, but rather bad for the hoses? I do live in a cold climate and am not interested in trashing my engine, see above. EHM was done by PO and I'm eager to fix anything that will prolong this rig's useful life.
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
If the RPM's spike to 1200, you probably do have the $500 GDE tune. I once had a tuned jeep that I had to call and talk to Keith about, and he was able to find it. I knew the previous owners name, and he asked for it, so that might have been how he found it.

I've never heard of a self tune that changes the startup idle spike like that.

The FCV is unplugged and no CEL? That's usually the newer GDE tune, hmm. The older tunes didn't suppress the FCV CEL.

puzzle indeed
Author:  bootstrapper [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
Update: pulled codes since the CEL is disabled.

P0714 A/T Transmission fluid temperature sensor intermittent
P0700 Automatic transmission control system malfunction
P0403 EGR solenoid circuit
P1140 Vacuum reservoir solenoid open or short-to-ground
P0299 Turbo boost pressure positive deviation performance

After searching the forum, it looks like 0700/0714 might have an easy fix that matches my trans behavior: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79424&hilit=p0714. I'm going to try that and report back.

I'm guessing 0403 is from the Weeks EGR delete.

1140 is apparently from removing the FCV: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78418&hilit=1140.

0299 I can't find a clear answer here. Any suggestions?
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
Not sure on that code. But, it all makes sense now with the GDE tune. I'd send your ECU in to GDE, and for $50 they can update the tune to get rid of the FCV/EGR codes. You can call Keith first, and maybe if you have the PO's name that purchased the tune, he can probably verify it. Or, at least he can verify that it has his tune via the idle flare.

The lack of smoke also makes the tunes obvious. They smell like an older diesel without the tune, but they burn much cleaner with the tune. You won't see any smoke under normal driving with the tune, unless you have turbo or other issues. Or, if you accelerate really hard.
Author:  bootstrapper [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
So I talked to Keith and Matt at GDE and they both couldn't find my VIN. I don't know the name of the person who did the EGR mod--the guy I bought it from only owned it for a couple months and was not helpful, so tracking down a GDE tune by PO name won't work.

What about doing a DIY ECU flash?
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD puzzle--what mods were done?
bootstrapper wrote:
So I talked to Keith and Matt at GDE and they both couldn't find my VIN. I don't know the name of the person who did the EGR mod--the guy I bought it from only owned it for a couple months and was not helpful, so tracking down a GDE tune by PO name won't work.

What about doing a DIY ECU flash?


I would send it to GDE, and they'll verify it has the tune, and for $50 they will update it.

You probably have a $500 (used to be $600) tune if the idle flare is present, and no self tune will compare to the performance and safety to the engine.

If I was you I'd email them again and ask if there's any other way to verify it. But, that idle flare is indicative. You scored in more than one way (rocker condition) by it already having the tune :rockon:
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