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 Post subject: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:26 pm 
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FRANKFURT, April 8 (Reuters) - Owners of Mercedes diesel cars filed a new class-action lawsuit in the United States saying the vehicles likely contained a "defeat device" used to cheat emissions testing, an accusation that Daimler, which owns the carmaker, denied.

U.S. law firm Hagens Berman, which had already filed a complaint in February, said new tests had shown that Mercedes BlueTEC cars produced nitrogen oxide emissions in virtually all road tests that were far higher than in controlled lab tests.

"The fact that Mercedes passed the dynamometer test in all tests, but failed the real world test, is suggestive that like VW, Mercedes is implementing a 'defeat device'," it said in its complaint filed in the District Court of New Jersey.

Daimler said in a statement on Friday: "We consider this class action lawsuit to be unfounded. Our position remains unchanged: A component that inadmissibly reduces emissions is not used in Mercedes-Benz vehicles."

BlueTEC is a filter system which uses urea to help rid exhaust fumes of health threatening nitric oxides. It is fairly costly and used mainly in heavier cars like Diamler's large limousines or sports utility vehicles, which are equipped with powerful diesel engines.

The complaint previously filed by Hagens Berman was more limited, alleging that Daimler knowingly programmed its so-called clean diesel vehicles to emit illegal levels of nitrogen oxide in low temperatures.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said at the time it had requested information from Daimler in light of the lawsuit but had not opened an official investigation.

VW, Europe's biggest carmaker, is facing its biggest crisis in recent memory after it acknowledged last September that it had rigged exhaust emission tests for up to 11 million vehicles worldwide.


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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:38 pm 
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I would say it is a bunch of bull, the Sprinter is the most neutered, overcomplex vehicle on the planet, with too many emissions controls and problems that work well until the van goes into LHM, then it is really running green.

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:11 pm 
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This crap about diesel emissions has gone too far. It's time we start writing every darn politician that'll listen and tell them to neuter and spay the EPA guard dogs and focus on economy. DPF's, SCR's and all of the urea crap they dump into the exhaust has got to go. Eff the EPA

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:04 am 
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I'd say if they are so concerned about environment, they should come up with a different fuel and stop being so oil money crazed.

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:11 am 
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You can clean the environment two ways: Treat the problem after it is already in the environment, or treat it before it ever enters the environment.

EGR and other engine-harming methods are the second option. Fixing the fuel is the smarter way. If you don't have bad things in the fuel, they won't get into the environment.

BUT... The oil / gas / coal / fracking industry has many monies to pay lobbyists. The motor vehicle driving public has far more, but no organization or willpower.

My solution would be two-fold: Regulate and control the coal power plants (massively big industrial polluters that there are over 500 of in this country!) down to the same level that they currently want of diesel cars. Each plant that this is done with, is the equivalent of permanently parking 3 million cars.

The second is widespread introduction of biodiesel into the fuel chain, replacing as much of dino-diesel as it can based on supply and local conditions (winterization would still require regular diesel fuel to a 50% mix at least, possibly B20/80% dino) and use after-treatment such as DEF to clean up after the fact.

Here is the thing: Diesels without all the emissions bull USE LESS FUEL so by default, they are creating less emissions in the first place. Soot isn't the problem, but the nannies at the EPA and CARB think it is, simply because they can see it. DEF is not a great answer, BUT it does two great things. It doesn't change the efficiency of the engine itself because it is applied solely in the exhaust system, and it helps treat some of the "potentially" bad things in the exhaust which makes the EPA nannies happy (for now). Anything that they want to do with the exhaust pipe, fine. But stay out of the engine bay itself, everything they have ever done there has resulted in using MORE fuel, which creates even more emissions!

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:52 pm 
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From what I know, all us coal plants that Obama's epa taxed to death are very ecological. Coal plants in us closed due to heavy taxes they had to pay, because there is a "war on coal". Sad thing is that we close coal plants, Mexico and China open 10 fold the number we close, without any filtration, so coal pollution is not from us as it is from other countries. Electricity price increased for people and business and one of the reasons our manufacturing costs increase and we are loosing industry is the high electricity costs, which are a very high percent in scaling profitability. Fosil fuel in general is a big huge mafia, there are no incentives to abandon them due to the almighty greed. I'm absolutely sure than in over 100 years of using fossil fuel human kind came up with technologies that allow alternate, non polluting fuels or means to generate energy. We'll probably never see them since fossil fuel is the best blackmail weapon and the best way to keep people dependent. And this has nothing to do with the climate change scam, it has to do with living on a clean planet, in balance with the environment and nature. If we could know only 10% of the secrets that are hidden from us...

Oh, regarding atomic energy plants that are neglected, there are numerous reports of higher than normal irradiation all over the country. I read an article couple months ago about irradiation on Hudson River, but since this is not about Trump's fingers, or about some idiotic racist theme, they don't make it in the mainstream media.

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:35 am 
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This lawsuit is bogus.
Just another lawyer trying to get rich.

The original claim was that Mercedes diesels had excess emissions when cold. Specifically when below 50 deg F. This part is true and is within acceptable limits.
There is no defeat device. Never was one.

In the VW investigation/lawsuit, there was actual published data, provided by a "independant" testing organization, that compared different "clean diesel" passenger cars. This made it obvious that the VW diesels were "different."

I suspect that this law firm is hoping that Benz will just settle out of court.

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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:09 am 
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Start a shift to LNG. India has done so and made a huge difference in applied cities, trucking and rail. Some gulf supply boats have built so and some made dual. I converted two 150 ton yard cranes to Dual fuel diesel/NG now running 4-5 years no problem, cheaper very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Mwrcedes Dieselgate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:14 pm 
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geordi wrote:
You can clean the environment two ways: Treat the problem after it is already in the environment, or treat it before it ever enters the environment.

EGR and other engine-harming methods are the second option. Fixing the fuel is the smarter way. If you don't have bad things in the fuel, they won't get into the environment.

BUT... The oil / gas / coal / fracking industry has many monies to pay lobbyists. The motor vehicle driving public has far more, but no organization or willpower.

My solution would be two-fold: Regulate and control the coal power plants (massively big industrial polluters that there are over 500 of in this country!) down to the same level that they currently want of diesel cars. Each plant that this is done with, is the equivalent of permanently parking 3 million cars.

The second is widespread introduction of biodiesel into the fuel chain, replacing as much of dino-diesel as it can based on supply and local conditions (winterization would still require regular diesel fuel to a 50% mix at least, possibly B20/80% dino) and use after-treatment such as DEF to clean up after the fact.

Here is the thing: Diesels without all the emissions bull USE LESS FUEL so by default, they are creating less emissions in the first place. Soot isn't the problem, but the nannies at the EPA and CARB think it is, simply because they can see it. DEF is not a great answer, BUT it does two great things. It doesn't change the efficiency of the engine itself because it is applied solely in the exhaust system, and it helps treat some of the "potentially" bad things in the exhaust which makes the EPA nannies happy (for now). Anything that they want to do with the exhaust pipe, fine. But stay out of the engine bay itself, everything they have ever done there has resulted in using MORE fuel, which creates even more emissions!


It is amazing how you and I can be so opposed to each other on some issues, and on others like this one it is like we read each other's thoughts. Gawd, you are like my evil twin brother... :twisted:


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