Jeep stalled and now won't start / Engine Rebuild

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:34 pm

Hello all, I was just driving my jeep and noticed that it was running rough all of a sudden, I pulled into where I was going to park and it stalled on me. Now it will crank and sputter but won't start. I'm kinda new to the whole diesel world and not sure where to start. Any help is appreciated.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:49 pm

Sounds like a fuel system problem.
Start by purging any air out of the fuel filter head.
If the fuel filter has never been replaced, now would be a good time.

Also, unplug the two wire connectors on the fuel filter head. If either one is wet or smells like diesel, you will need to replace the fuel filter assembly.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Thanks, the filter and head are 7,000 miles old, I have a New filter on order. I tried purging the air and it did not seem to help

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Also the two plugs are dry

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:30 pm

Ok. That kinda rules out the fuel filter and head.

Next is to check for codes.
If no codes, it might be the crankshaft position sensor.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:41 pm

Just pulled the codes, I'm getting a P0303 and P0876

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:52 pm

P0876 seems to be a tranmission fault. Not related to your no starting problem.

P0303 is cylinder #3 misfire. This could indicate a problem with that fuel injector or maybe something else.
Something easy to try is disconnect and firmly reconnect each injector plug.

rankom · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:20 pm

ok, dont panic fuel guys already responding. did you check fuel rail pressure? if losing fuel pressure next step is to see where we are losing pressure ? unfortunately i did not have time to find old fuel line and weld and cap other end and use it as test tool to find leaky injector . at this point we need to know your fuel rail pressure when cranking ?

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:44 am

I unplugged all of the injectors and replugged them. It did not seem to make a difference. And how would I find the fuel rail pressure?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:56 am

You would need a OBD diagnostic tool to read fuel rail pressure.

A lot of folks use a ELM327 OBD bluetooth adapter along with the TorquePro app for Android phones and tablets. It can give you a fuel rail pressure reading although it is not a direct reading from the fuel rail pressure sensor.
The only scan tool I know of that gives a direct read of the pressure sensor is the one used by the dealership.

You can also do a injector return flow test.
Basically, all that is done is that tubes are connected from each injector to individual vials to collect the returned fuel. Then compare the levels. If the levels in the vials are not close to even, whichever one is too high or too low indicates a bad injector.

A couple other easy things you can check:
1. ASD fuse, located in the fuse box under the hood
2. ASD relay, swap it with another relay to see if that makes a difference
3. Is there a red dot on the instrument cluster that stays lit and doesn't turn off? If so, this would indicate a problem with your ignition key or the module that reads the code in your ingnition key.

Other thoughts:
You can have it towed to the dealer if you want, but if it were me, I would clear the codes and replace the crank sensor first.
Remove and inspect the glow plugs. If any of them are broken this could be an indication that something bad had happened inside the cylinder.
If after clearing the codes, and more failed attempts at starting the engine, the P0303 code comes back, I would then pull that injector and have it tested.
If you get different codes then more diagnosis is required.

Diagnosing fuel system problems on this engine can be a long and difficult process. Especially when the trouble codes dont give you a clear indication of what the fault is.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:59 am

One more thing.

How many miles are on your CRD and has the timing belt ever been replaced?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:48 pm

Crank position sensor will not cause a misfire code.
Fuel issues (such as with injector) *could* cause a misfire code.

Unfortunately, misfire codes are rare, and not happy things to get. This plus the "running rough before stalling" is not a good collection of signs. I have to second the question, have you ever had the timing belt replaced? How many miles on the engine?

There are a few things that can cause a misfire code, and it doesn't always directly match the cylinder indicated, depending on what actually happened. The computer is detecting a change in speed of the camshaft and crank sensors, this is why they won't be bad, but they are detecting that the engine is not "happy" and the RPM is not consistent. Physical damage inside a cylinder (dropped valve) can cause this, but also so can a drippy injector (firing on the exhaust stroke) or broken rockers from a slipped timing belt.

If you do not have a mechanic experienced with the CRD to look at it, I am the travelling CRD mechanic and was planning to be in your area for other reasons next week. I could stop by if you wanted.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:21 pm

Thanks for all of the responses. I was not able to get fuel pressure with my Bluetooth obdII reader, it was showing the value as N/A. I changed the fuel filter and purged the air. Its started right up but there was a loud screeching so I shut it right down. I do not know how many miles are on it, I was in the process of pricing parts and finding out how to do it. It sounds like my luck may have run out.

Geordi if it fits into your schedule I would really appreciate it.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:29 am

Thanks for the help everyone, i have been in touch with Geordi and he will be coming by next week. I will post what we find.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2016 5:09 pm

Just wanted to keep this up to date. First a big thanks to Geordi for the work on replacing the timing belt and rockers and head gasket. Alot of work was done. We got it started... I ran it dry of oil. I guess I learned my lesson the hard way. There is noise coming from the bottom end when running. I am going to be pulling the pan soon to see what I can see. I will post pictures of what I find. At least at this point I know I have a new top end and new timing belt.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

rankom · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2016 8:42 pm

how much oil was in it ? or if you added oil how much ? drain oil and see if any metal debris is in it ? most big truck shops have oil analyses machines , take that oil sample for testing .

rankom · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2016 8:57 pm

also your original complaint was engine started running rough and then shut down , and no start after that , if you had a bad crank bearing do to oil starvation , usually engine does not shut down , 1st oil warning light will come on , engine start making noise (no rough running) then if you continue running it it will seize up or connecting rod will depart through the engine block ,

rankom · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2016 7:25 pm

how are you going to remove oil pan ? i guess pulling engine out , as most of members found it the easiest method.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 7:51 am

when we first started it, it made a loud squealing noise, we doo doo it right down. At this point we checked the oil, it was not even touching the dipstick. :banghead:

we added about 5 quarts. we started it back up, this time no squealing but there was a knocking that changed in relation to rpm. I am going to send a sample out for testing, not really sure what ill get back but we will see. Also the oil warning light had never came on previously.

As far as pulling the pan, not sure yet. I am going to take a look tonight and see which way looks to be the easiest.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 10:09 pm

The problem with the oil pressure light is the location of the probe. The oil pump generates pressure and pressurizes right into the filter with the probe right at the outlet of the filter. As long as there is enough oil to fill the filter and provide at least a tiny amount of pressure, the light will not come on.

We added a quart into the system and the dipstick was still completely dry. A full gallon on top brought the level on the stick up to about 3/4" above full, but in this instance the excess level would have no meaning. I have seen the inside of the block during a full disassembly, and this block is CAVERNOUS inside, you could fill it up with 3 gallons of oil and the pistons would still not be touching. I'm going to try and get some measurements of the level where the oil most likely sits when "properly" filled, and see how that might relate to my knowledge of where the balance shafts are - If it didn't create a massive loss of economy by flooding the balance shafts, I think adding some extra oil would not be the worst idea.

In Jason's case, there were no unusual noises while cranking and I had already rotated the engine by hand and it was smooth and normal feeling. Thus far, I haven't found any way of inspecting the bottom end other than hearing a knock that is metallic sounding, and it only seems to happen during engine idling, not during cranking.

So the first time it fired off, the engine made a very unhappy screech noise. We cut the key off instantly (less than a second of operation) and that was when the lack of oil was discovered. After adding the oil, the engine sounded almost normal at idling, but I did hear a low tapping that progressed into a metallic tapping. That was the point that we shut the engine down and the unhappy discovery was complete.

The reason he had rough running and the stall is still somewhat unknown, but he had several broken glow plugs (5v bosch metal) that could have explained some of that. The symptoms suggested possible valve issues, but the teardown only found a few broken rockers. I will be posting a picture of the rockers in another thread, I have a suspicion that they may be related to the bottom end failures. The top of the rockers in the old style is just barely crimped in position. I am wondering if the weak top allows the oil pressure to escape, which might contribute to too much oil spray on the top of the engine and reduce the overall pressure in the rest of the system.

Taking the engine down to the top of the pistons showed only the broken glow plugs and a few broken lifters. The cams and rockers were all fine, and no valve issues at all. Hopefully the pan can come off with only raising the engine, but I do seem to remember someone got their pan off by removing the crossmember from the bottom.

Jeep stalled and now won't start / Engine Rebuild

Who is online