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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:52 am 
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Just an update, was not able to drop the pan, pulled the engine last night finally and i will post pictures of what i find when i pull the pan tonight

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:41 pm 
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I hope you find your problem by pulling the pan; be sure and pull the rod caps and inspect the rod bearings! Based on what you and geordi have stated, I am afraid you may have possibly spun a rod bearing. The loud squealing noise, and lack of oil level and / or oil pressure, and now a mechanical knocking noise are key indicators. Remember, the rod bearings are the last item to receive oil pressure from the main oil galley which feeds the main crankshaft bearings first and then connecting rod bearings last. So any lack of oil or oil pressure will wipe a rod bearing first! :roll:
Worn main bearings will rattle at idle when worn out, but rod bearings will knock when engine is given a slight amount of fuel and allowed to rev up slightly...
Unfortunately I have seen this happen quite a few times in my days past as a mechanic working on cars and trucks before when engine was allowed to run low in oil or suffered an oil pump failure.... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:54 pm 
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Well I got the pan off and found this
Image

And then I dug a little deeper and found this
ImageImageImageImage

Looks like I'm going to be pulling the crank, this is already further into an engine than I've gone so I'll be referring to the service manual alot

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New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Ouch!
Looks like you spun at least one rod bearing.
Crank will have to be pulled and sent to a machine shop.
IDparts.com has oversize bearings for the crank and rods

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:38 pm 
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That makes at least the third engine I know about that has lost the #4 rod bearing in the same way. I wonder why.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:56 am 
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Bummer, looks like it spun a rod bearing just as I had suspected based on original posts due to very low oil level found and obviously low oil pressure to the bearings... :cry:
I am very curious though since it was not explained by op or geordi earlier as to why the oil level was found so very low after the TB & rocker job? Did I miss something, where did all that oil go originally, was there a bad oil leak somewhere? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Oil level was fine about a week before it would not start, did not think to check oil level until after tb was done, there was no noticeable oil leak that I saw so not sure where it went . I plan on tearing it down and seeing if I can get the crank ground, i think it won't be able to but I didn't have my micrometer with me to measure how bad it is. Any tips on how to remove the crank would be appreciated.

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New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:47 am 
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Jsamps1345 wrote:
Oil level was fine about a week before it would not start, did not think to check oil level until after tb was done, there was no noticeable oil leak that I saw so not sure where it went . I plan on tearing it down and seeing if I can get the crank ground, i think it won't be able to but I didn't have my micrometer with me to measure how bad it is. Any tips on how to remove the crank would be appreciated.

If that much oil disappeared and no oil leaks were found; I would be very concerned as to where that amount of oil went! :?:
Two possibilities come to mind:
1. Oil cooler leak and engine oil was pushed into the cooling system. If this is the case then you should have oil floating on top of your coolant in the coolant reservoir bottle.
2. Other possibly and a more likely scenario; turbo charger bearing lost an oil seal and the turbo sucked all that oil out of the motor and into the charge air system and possibly passed some of the oil through the combustion process... In this case I would be checking the charge air cooler and see if it has a lot of oil in it. Also check the the turbo for any excess lateral or radial shaft movement. A worn turbo shaft bearing could wipe an oil seal and cause it to leak oil! :roll:
What you do not want to experience again is to rebuild this motor and have the same mysterious loss of oil happen a second time!!!! :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:23 pm 
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There was no noticeable oil in the coolant that I saw. Is there any way of testing either the cooler or turbo while the engine is apart?
Also is it worth putting in a new oil pump while I have it apart or is there a good Chance this one is Still good?
And I really appreciate all the advice, this is a whole area that I don't have alot of knowledge in.

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:59 pm 
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You can stick your fingers in the turbo and try to wiggle the shaft and check for excessive play in the shaft.
If the bearings in the turbo are worn out, its possible that all the oil got dumped into the exhaust.

The oil escaped the engine somehow.
If it was a bad engine seal, there would be evidence on the block or underneath the vehicle.
If it was the oil cooler, oil would be mixed with the coolant.
If it was a bad turbo, the oil either went into the intercooler or out the exhaust.
If it was the turbo oil feed line, turbo would be covered in oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Yeah, I really want to know where the oil went too. I lost the #4 bearing on my second engine in my first CRD... (It's getting to where I will need a scorecard!)

But when that bearing went, the oil was all still right there in the sump. I have no idea why that one failed, just some suspicions and guesses.

Check the downpipe from the turbo (easy) and if that is wet, then you know it went out the back of the turbo.

The intercooler doesn't have a drain, but you will need to remove it and tip it over. Note that there probably will be at least a cup of oil in there from the normal CCV flow... You are looking for a gallon of oil.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Jsamps1345 wrote:
There was no noticeable oil in the coolant that I saw. Is there any way of testing either the cooler or turbo while the engine is apart?
Also is it worth putting in a new oil pump while I have it apart or is there a good Chance this one is Still good?
And I really appreciate all the advice, this is a whole area that I don't have alot of knowledge in.k

The oil cooler can be pressure tested while you have it off the motor. A simple test is to put a small amount of pressure, about 20 psig on the cooler while under water and look for any leaks. Any radiator shop can perform this test! Sorta like looking for a leak in an tire or inner tube. But if you found no oil in the coolant, it probably rules out a leak in the oil cooler. That amount of oil loss would be very evident in the cooling system!!!
As to the turbo, other than having a turbo shop check it, you can feel the shaft for any noticeable lateral or radial movement, there should be very, very little play in the bearings either way. If you are not sure, find and take to a turbo shop and let them check it for you. Also, if you pull the charge air cooler and it has a bunch of oil in it, that would probably point to a failed turbo seal. You cannot chance another loss of oil event after rebuilding your engine! :roll:
As to the oil pump, it probably is ok, it just simply ran out of oil on the suction side due to low sump level. I would closely inspect it while you got the motor apart and check the internals for any noticeable wear or scoring... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:46 am 
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I will run those couple of tests and check the intercooler and down pipe. I should be able to make it over to check on it tonight and i will let you know.

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New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Finally had a chance to work on the jeep, the downpipe was dry just some soot on the inside, haven't had a chance to test the oil cooler. I did pull the crank and measured the one that had spun and was getting 2.112 so if I am reading the service manual correctly, it looks like I am going to be needing a new/used crank(no idea were to start looking for that)

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:41 pm 
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What was the spec for the crank - IDparts has one that is an oversize bearing, which should be fine if the math matches up?

There may also be other thicker bearings available that will work too - I've been finding companies that make custom bearings as well as custom valves and other things. Might not be cheap, but might be cheaper than a new crank.

Maybe talk to Nick (Mountainman) he might have a crank laying around. I brought him a block with a scored crank and a pristine one to replace it with, but I didn't measure that scored crank to see if it was a candidate for grinding and the oversize bearing. Maybe that one will do you.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:55 pm 
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Any good crankshaft shop can have a bad crankshaft welded up and turned back down to the correct size as long as it is not cracked! This is a very common practice in the automotive world. Had many of them repaired this way in my mechanical experience over the years. This will make the purchase of a new crankshaft unnecessary and is much less expensive..... :wink:

For detailed information on this process, read this article:
Crankshaft Repair
Crankshaft welding is a process by which new material is added to a journal or thrust.
Precision machining solutions to fix crankshafts:
http://crankshaftrepair.org/welding/#more-134

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:13 am 
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Geordi,
The specs are as below for
Connecting Rod Journal-Nominal
53.940-53.955 mm
2.123-2.124 in.

Connecting Rod Journal- minus 0.25
53.690-53.705 mm
2.113-2.114 in.


WWDiesel,
I was not aware that you could weld them up before grinding them back down, i will definitely look into that first. My thought is if i can salvage this crank that may be the way to go.

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Created a photo album, link below, of the pictures i have taken so far thru the process in case anyone is interested.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start / Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:59 am 
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Added a few more pictures to the photo album. Ive done a few things since my last post.

Cleaned everything
painted the block
had a shop test the head and replace valves, intake and exhaust

Planning on starting putting everything back together tonight

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep stalled and now won't start / Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:00 pm 
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What did you end up doing about your crank, rebuild yours or did you get a different one? :?:

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