LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Tranny bit the dust

I expect this is the known issue that the TSB addresses: TQ, Cooler, Trans Filters, Flash and possible Trans pump. After the TQ goes it sends debris through the system reqiring Trans replacement. Hopefully you will be upgraded to the new design and not have this issue again.

Is the torque converter in 21-009-06 updated from the original?

OldNavy - tranny build date is outside of TSB date range listed for filter replacement. Forgot to mention, a strange metallic jangling sound from the tranny area when idling the last month. Not diesel sound, but a distinct metallic rattling sound. No codes set, no Mil light.
One other really bad sign of internal disentegration - the cooler line from the tranny is scorching hot, but the return cooler line to the tranny is cold, as is cold, no heat at all, which is abnormal. I check these lines during cooldown each night and there is always some heat on the return cooler line. Tech thinks debris internally has blocked the cooler filter, which causes an avalanche effect of more internal destruction due to heat failure. At least there isn't any question about a problem. Strangely enough, except for the shudder, the shifting has been very good on this tranny.

19500 miles.

Man, I'm already missing the CRD. I'm back to driving the V6 Libby. Better seats, quieter, but somehow, I miss the old familar diesel gurgle.

Tech said transmission and torque converter is "normal" and did nothing

Quote:

Tech said transmission and torque converter is "normal" and did nothing

Between the massive low rpm torque and the undersized tranny cooler, you probably won't have to wait too long before undeniable symptoms show up. Owning an 02 V6 Liberty and a CRD, both with the same transmission, I have a chance to compare them frequently. I did add an auxillary cooler to the 02, and the temperature difference between the 02 and the CRD, as measured by my hands after driving home 25 miles, is remarkable. The 02 tranny cooler is warm, but not hot, while the CRD tranny cooler is too hot to touch. My 02 tranny has never had a single problem, shifts very smoothly and has never seen any shudder whatsoever.

If the new tranny cooler in the TSB is larger, we'll know where part of the trouble came from.

The V6 and CRD have different trannys from every thing I have read, 4 sp vs 5 spd. I assume they are somewhat simuliar, just that the 545RLE was a heavier duty tranny with an extra gear to row with. It uses a different gear goig up then it does going down.

That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005.

Sales Codes:
[DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE]

5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic
4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER

Ranger1 wrote:

That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005.

From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004:

Quote:

Sales Codes:
[DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE]

5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic
4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER

This is for the turbo diesel engine code listed. The part number in the replacement TSB is a kit listed as part number:

68000336AA Kit, Torque Converter (includes screws)

So, how do we verify the actual torque converter in the "Kit"???

alljeep wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005.

From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004:

Quote:

Sales Codes:
[DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE]

5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic
4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER

Found this on another site, owner posted torque converter and other hardware parts list when his was replaced - February 06 before the latest TSB was issued:

PARTS QTY FP-NUMBER DESCRIPTION
1 5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009
1 4736582-AD CONVERTER 99000000
4 1949765 SCREW HEX 9004005
1 5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005
1 5010884-AA SEALER RT 1081003
1 5013470-AC FILTER PKG 21170002
1 4799662 FILTER TR 21170001

The TQ kit number from TSB 21-009-06 is
TQ kit 68000336AA
pump 05073004AD
cooler 05183561AA

Looks like the torque converter part number has changed from the original factory part number, and TSB 21-009-06 is using the same part numbers Chrispitude listed back in February. Looks like his RRT fix became TSB 21-009-06.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Tranny bit the dust
On the way to work, my tranny started lugging down when stopped at traffic lights. It had a difficult time disengaging to neutral, and would try to lurch forward. On the highway, it shifted perfectly, but anytime I slowed to a stop, it was struggling. At lunch, I went out and it began grinding, groaning and shaking tremendously when attempting to move forward in Drive. I turned around and went back to work, as there was a strong burning odor of transmission fluid. The fluid level is correct, clear, and I can't see any debris in it. Took it to the dealer - they have to tear it down, but told me once it starts acting like that, its a new or remanufactured transmission coming. Ah yes...my favorite toy is broken.

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri May 12, 2006 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Sounds like the old torque converter bit the dust along with a few other parts probably because of the improper filters syndrome.

Author:	cerich [ Fri May 12, 2006 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:
How many miles? I feel you are among the first of what will be most of us.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:
OldNavy - tranny build date is outside of TSB date range listed for filter replacement. Forgot to mention, a strange metallic jangling sound from the tranny area when idling the last month. Not diesel sound, but a distinct metallic rattling sound. No codes set, no Mil light. One other really bad sign of internal disentegration - the cooler line from the tranny is scorching hot, but the return cooler line to the tranny is cold, as is cold, no heat at all, which is abnormal. I check these lines during cooldown each night and there is always some heat on the return cooler line. Tech thinks debris internally has blocked the cooler filter, which causes an avalanche effect of more internal destruction due to heat failure. At least there isn't any question about a problem. Strangely enough, except for the shudder, the shifting has been very good on this tranny. 19500 miles. Man, I'm already missing the CRD. I'm back to driving the V6 Libby. Better seats, quieter, but somehow, I miss the old familar diesel gurgle.

Author:	NetworkMD [ Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:
I expect this is the known issue that the TSB addresses: TQ, Cooler, Trans Filters, Flash and possible Trans pump. After the TQ goes it sends debris through the system reqiring Trans replacement. Hopefully you will be upgraded to the new design and not have this issue again.

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Tranny bit the dust http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8450	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:
NetworkMD wrote: I expect this is the known issue that the TSB addresses: TQ, Cooler, Trans Filters, Flash and possible Trans pump. After the TQ goes it sends debris through the system reqiring Trans replacement. Hopefully you will be upgraded to the new design and not have this issue again. I'm already partway there. Just had the 18-009-06 TSB performed 2 weeks ago. All I need now is a new tranny to go with it.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Is the torque converter in 21-009-06 updated from the original?

Author:	Guest [ Fri May 12, 2006 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: Is the torque converter in 21-009-06 updated from the original? That's the million dollar question isn't it? I would like to know if a beefed up torque converter is available once all of our first ones bite the dust. My gut feeling tells me no since this problem is only starting to show up in larger numbers. It would be nice to think that the '06 model folks got lucky with a different one, but without someone on the inside leaking information to us, we will never know...

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri May 12, 2006 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: OldNavy - tranny build date is outside of TSB date range listed for filter replacement. Forgot to mention, a strange metallic jangling sound from the tranny area when idling the last month. Not diesel sound, but a distinct metallic rattling sound. No codes set, no Mil light. One other really bad sign of internal disentegration - the cooler line from the tranny is scorching hot, but the return cooler line to the tranny is cold, as is cold, no heat at all, which is abnormal. I check these lines during cooldown each night and there is always some heat on the return cooler line. Tech thinks debris internally has blocked the cooler filter, which causes an avalanche effect of more internal destruction due to heat failure. At least there isn't any question about a problem. Strangely enough, except for the shudder, the shifting has been very good on this tranny. 19500 miles. Man, I'm already missing the CRD. I'm back to driving the V6 Libby. Better seats, quieter, but somehow, I miss the old familar diesel gurgle. When I took mine back the 2nd time for the 18-009-06 reflash, SA used the term "Torque converter rattle" when describing my complaint. Where she got that term is beyond me. I didn't tell them that, asked for the reflash TSB. Tech said transmission and torque converter is "normal" and did nothing. Been around a lot of Detroit Diesel/Allison automatc combos, seen this before. Mine feels like a classic oil starvation and acts up after a good 50 mile run. Sent an e-mail complaint to DC today.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I notice that the TSB for converter and other tranny hardware replacement is only for vehicles with a build date prior to November 3, 2005 for 05's and 06's. This makes me wonder if they changed torque converters and pumps at that time on the line. One of the VM Motori engineers posted last year on another site that DCX found the torque converter wasn't robust enough for the R428 and that a different TC might be coming later in the year. If someone has access to the Chrysler part number for the torque converter on the CRD, we could compare them to the numbers on the TSB.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Tech said transmission and torque converter is "normal" and did nothing Between the massive low rpm torque and the undersized tranny cooler, you probably won't have to wait too long before undeniable symptoms show up. Owning an 02 V6 Liberty and a CRD, both with the same transmission, I have a chance to compare them frequently. I did add an auxillary cooler to the 02, and the temperature difference between the 02 and the CRD, as measured by my hands after driving home 25 miles, is remarkable. The 02 tranny cooler is warm, but not hot, while the CRD tranny cooler is too hot to touch. My 02 tranny has never had a single problem, shifts very smoothly and has never seen any shudder whatsoever. If the new tranny cooler in the TSB is larger, we'll know where part of the trouble came from.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri May 12, 2006 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: Quote: Tech said transmission and torque converter is "normal" and did nothing Between the massive low rpm torque and the undersized tranny cooler, you probably won't have to wait too long before undeniable symptoms show up. Owning an 02 V6 Liberty and a CRD, both with the same transmission, I have a chance to compare them frequently. I did add an auxillary cooler to the 02, and the temperature difference between the 02 and the CRD, as measured by my hands after driving home 25 miles, is remarkable. The 02 tranny cooler is warm, but not hot, while the CRD tranny cooler is too hot to touch. My 02 tranny has never had a single problem, shifts very smoothly and has never seen any shudder whatsoever. If the new tranny cooler in the TSB is larger, we'll know where part of the trouble came from. What I saw on the newer Allison B-500R bus transmission was the internally mounted filters would plug up with debris during normal break-in. This caused oil starvation, overheating, and trans failure. Had to do a trans filter service within the first month and then @ every 6 months afterwards to keep them together. If not it's @ $14,000 repair bill.

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri May 12, 2006 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:
The V6 and CRD have different trannys from every thing I have read, 4 sp vs 5 spd. I assume they are somewhat simuliar, just that the 545RLE was a heavier duty tranny with an extra gear to row with. It uses a different gear goig up then it does going down.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri May 12, 2006 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: The V6 and CRD have different trannys from every thing I have read, 4 sp vs 5 spd. I assume they are somewhat simuliar, just that the 545RLE was a heavier duty tranny with an extra gear to row with. It uses a different gear goig up then it does going down. Just wonder what gear it grabbed to spin me around like a top. About had to get my seats cleaned.

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Author:	Flying J [ Fri May 12, 2006 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Ok this post is going to make me get serious about a trans temp guage. Ranger1 - I hope it works out for you. Have you towed much with it?

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:
No towing on this one. Nada, zip. In fact, the CRD has seen primarily light on road duty and most of it at 65-75 mph. I did have the bucking and lurching from about 8K miles. It's been flashed for that twice now, but the last flash was probably too late. The only CRD owner post I found with the new torque converter seems to be satisfied with the results. Could be they had a bad batch of tranny parts. That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri May 12, 2006 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: The V6 and CRD have different trannys from every thing I have read, 4 sp vs 5 spd. I assume they are somewhat simuliar, just that the 545RLE was a heavier duty tranny with an extra gear to row with. It uses a different gear goig up then it does going down. The 02 Liberty has the 45RFE, which is the same tranny as the 545RFE, minus the 5th gear. The 545RFE has an extra overdrive electronically activated (.67). The 2003 and up gasolene power Liberty's have the 42RLE transmission, which is ligher duty 4 speed with 2 planetary gearsets. The (5)45RFE has 3 planetary gearsets, and all gears are electronically activated.

Author:	Guest [ Sat May 13, 2006 9:55 am ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005. From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004: Quote: Sales Codes: [DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE] 5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic 4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER This is for the turbo diesel engine code listed. The part number in the replacement TSB is a kit listed as part number: 68000336AA Kit, Torque Converter (includes screws) So, how do we verify the actual torque converter in the "Kit"???

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat May 13, 2006 10:20 am ]
Post subject:
alljeep wrote: Ranger1 wrote: That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005. From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004: Quote: Sales Codes: [DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE] 5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic 4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER This is for the turbo diesel engine code listed. The part number in the replacement TSB is a kit listed as part number: 68000336AA Kit, Torque Converter (includes screws) So, how do we verify the actual torque converter in the "Kit"??? Found this on another site, owner posted torque converter and other hardware parts list when his was replaced - February 06 before the latest TSB was issued: PARTS QTY FP-NUMBER DESCRIPTION 1 5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009 1 4736582-AD CONVERTER 99000000 4 1949765 SCREW HEX 9004005 1 5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005 1 5010884-AA SEALER RT 1081003 1 5013470-AC FILTER PKG 21170002 1 4799662 FILTER TR 21170001 The TQ kit number from TSB 21-009-06 is TQ kit 68000336AA pump 05073004AD cooler 05183561AA Looks like the torque converter part number has changed from the original factory part number, and TSB 21-009-06 is using the same part numbers Chrispitude listed back in February. Looks like his RRT fix became TSB 21-009-06.

Author:	Guest [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: alljeep wrote: Ranger1 wrote: That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005. From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004: Quote: Sales Codes: [DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE] 5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic 4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER This is for the turbo diesel engine code listed. The part number in the replacement TSB is a kit listed as part number: 68000336AA Kit, Torque Converter (includes screws) So, how do we verify the actual torque converter in the "Kit"??? Found this on another site, owner posted torque converter and other hardware parts list when his was replaced - February 06 before the latest TSB was issued: PARTS QTY FP-NUMBER DESCRIPTION 1 5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009 1 4736582-AD CONVERTER 99000000 4 1949765 SCREW HEX 9004005 1 5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005 1 5010884-AA SEALER RT 1081003 1 5013470-AC FILTER PKG 21170002 1 4799662 FILTER TR 21170001 The TQ kit number from TSB 21-009-06 is TQ kit 68000336AA pump 05073004AD cooler 05183561AA Looks like the torque converter part number has changed from the original factory part number, and TSB 21-009-06 is using the same part numbers Chrispitude listed back in February. Looks like his RRT fix became TSB 21-009-06. Hmmmm. Now I only have two more unknowns. 1) when did the new part number torque converter get into the production line (since my service manual is from September of 2004) 2) is it just a new part number because it's a new year, or does Jeep not work like that. When was your transmission and/or vehicle built? Mine was 06/20/05. * Update * I just answered my own question #2 - I matched the part number for the trans oil pump for the recent repair listed above and it matches the part number in my Sept. 2004 service manual, (5073004AD) so the part numbers don't just change because of a calendar year. I think we have enough proof here to verify there is a new torque converter with some kind of change - question is, when did it enter into production???