LOST JEEPS :: View topic - ALL IN for injector removal procedure

Thanks for the response.
I'm living in Ensenada, so it seems improbable that any LJ members are nearby to loan the special tool, but nice idea. Being in MX is also the reason I'm extra-weary about causing any damage while doing the washer/o-ring replacement; the Chrysler dealer here said the KJ CRD's were never sold in Mexico so it's comparatively harder to obtain any parts.

I'm going to continue the #4 extraction battle in the AM. It sounds like some urging with a carefully leveraged crowbar is in order.

Re injector's 29mm top, are you saying that it's a calibrated fit? If so, that means my reward for being CRD-injector clueless should be a party when i reinstall. Great. I'll just try to dial the torque back to what it was. Hopefully it won't be too bad.

Thanks for your time!

Back together. Cranks, no start. 3/4 tank.
Bled air out at fuel-head fitting; there was lots of air, but it's now priming strong and clear.
Pulled #1's fuel supply&return lines; no flow either hand-priming@head or cranking.
Normal operation, cranking should whiz fuel out the line at any injector, no?
I have a Kennedy electric fuel pump waiting to go in. Should have done that before messing with the fuel system at engine!

Triple checked all plug connects. Only mod is from Weeks 1/2, egr & maf plugs disconnected. But it was running fine post-weeks/pre-pulling #4.
Even if #4 incorrectly reassembled/installed, senor Jeep should still start on other 3, albeit run like crap, no?
I'm in Mexico, so any and all suggestions welcome and appreciated. Will hunt threads for ideas.
Thanks

Re electrical connectors, thanks for heads-up. I sprayed all contacts with electrical-connector cleaner and triple-checked they're fully engaged. Also insured that plugs were not swapped; wire's "shape memory" usually reliable for reattachment, and someone's note that "two rear sensor wires near #4 injector are usually electrical-taped separately from #4 wire" both accurate and helpful.

Author:	Gypsy62 [ Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:	ALL IN for injector removal procedure
ITS FINE TO FOLLOW "REMOVAL" PROCEDURE, BUT DO NOT UNSCREW THE 29MM (1 1/8TH) CAP-NUT off the top-portion of the injector itself. Don't make my mistake; do not disassemble an injector. Unless you have the proper knowledge, experience, psrts and tools you will only damage and/or miscalibrate the injector. #4 INJECTOR REMOVAL TIPS: A#1: IF YOU HAVE AIR, BLOW THE CRAP OUT OF THE INJECTOR AREA BEFORE, repeat BEFORE , YOU DISCONNECT ANY FUEL LINES OR REMOVE THE INJECTOR!!!* Then use rags to clean the area as much as you possibly can BEFORE PULLING THE INJECTOR! You want to eliminate the danger of any crap whatsoever falling into the cylinder when you remove the injector! This advice applies equally to those using the magnificent Miller injector removal tool as well as we neanderthals. B.The over-engine wiring "spider" is a pita obstacle. It runs over-engine then along the firewall behind the coolant reservoir. To create some play to permit shifting the spider a bit (as necessary to fit hands/tools around the #4/back/rear injector), first remove the 10mm nut that secures the wiring spider's black plastic cover to the back-left (facing engine) of the valve cover (while there, remove the vertical stud it's attached to; more room for wrench-rotation). Next, remove the coolant reservoir's two 10mm mounting nuts, then carefully pull the reservoir forward enough to allow some play in the spider. C. Remove Injector electrical connectors from BOTH #3&4 (#3 to provide more working room). D. Only disconnect #4 fuel line at injector, but completely remove #3 fuel line entirely. Again, more working room, and also reduces the likelihood of damaging the #3 line while wrestling the #4 injector. #3 line contrasted in front of yellow rag; its removal provides greatly improved visual and manual access to #4: E Obviously, don't forget to remove #4 injector's base "retainer crow" bolt and crowfoot-fitting. F. In spite of the painful lesson from (stupidly) COMPLETELY removing the injector cap (DON'T!), to help loosen and remove a stubborn injector, IF NECESSARY I still advocate taking advantage of the cap nut's 29mm hex to GENTLY 1/8th-rotate the top section of the injector back-n-forth (neither loosening nor tightening the cap!) enough to help loosen its base. Pull directly up on the injector while simultaneously rotating back and forth. Thanks to PB-soaking overnite, it actually wasn't that bad (for #4). Best wrench angle: *Lacking air tools in the field, my 'cleaning' solution was to use vaseline on the end of a flex-shaft screwdriver with no tip inserted. After the injector was removed, the same method also worked great for cleaning the injector shaft and base (flex-shaft driver is too big to fall into the cylinder!). It probably took 50 "coat, dip, clean; coat, dip, clean"s before the injector base and shaft were clean, but it seems to have worked very well. In fact, the flex-driver/vaseline combo extracted the old crush-washer on the 30th 'dip'. Yeah! Cell-pics of #4 injector-base before/after cleaning with flex-vas: Hardly perfect, but clean enough that the fresh crush-washer has been airtight post-op. The incredible amount of crap around #4's base was my fault. While on a week-long road trip my #4 fuel line started leaking. Not too bad, and I didn't have tools with me, so I let it flow for maybe four days of driving. DON'T DO THAT! I am now certain that the diesel pooling and seeping into the #4 injector base is what caused both my air leak AND the accumulation of crap around the injector. Stupid. All it would have required was a 17mm wrench and 5 minutes to snug the line and stop the fuel leak. Argh. Suerte. HERE'S EXPLODED PICS OF FULLY DISASSEMBLED INJECTOR. I haven't received my "Lebowski Injector-Tech Junior Achiever" plaque, but there's always next year, (sigh). Will post tech notes to accompany pics soon.. The injector pics should satisfy mechanical curiosity and maybe give someone in a jam a fighting chance for a field fix (improbable) All parts to the right of the main injector body fit between the cap and body in the top portion of the injector (the dime is pictured for scale). The parts on the lower left beneath the main body are the lower components. There's a washer between the injector and its fuel line fitting. Below are pics of the small jet from the upper-injector exploded view above, perched on the blade of a magnetic screwdriver (zoom in). Note the dome-shaped recess in first pic below; it faces downward within the center tube of the lower plunger and cups a miniscule ball-bearing (absent). The second pic shows the jet's flat flipside. Lower portion assembled. Lower portion disassembled; note the small jet. I'll enhance the above coloring-book with actual injector-tech info as acquired. Or maybe someone else cares to pipe-in some techno-smarts...?

Author:	Mountainman [ Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Well, if it's really cemented in there, then it can be extremely difficult to remove without the factory tool. Try to wiggle it back and forth with a box wrench on the portion that the clamp bites onto, (13mm?) and if you can get it moving, it will get easier, and then you just keep twisting and pulling and maybe you can get it out without the tool. You can twist and pull with all of your strength by hand, and some prying if you are careful. I pull them all of the time, and that tool is invaluable. Where are you located? Maybe someone would lend theirs to you if they are local, or rent one from Sasquatch. It makes even the worst ones come out in seconds with no hassle. Do you think you actually turned that upper part of the injector when you turned on it? If so, I still think you will be just fine to put it back to approx where it was, but I've never been inside one... someone that has worked on them will probably comment

Author:	Gypsy62 [ Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Thanks for the response.

Author:	papaindigo [ Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
This link might help viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81032 The injectors do not screw in rather they are IIRC a "push" fit and held in place by the crow's foot clamp (NOTE when reinstalling be sure the $0.10 size steel plate that the crow's foot pivot's on has remained in place in the valve cover and do not over tighten the crow's foot bolt). The "O" ring does not provide any combustion seal rather it's there just to keep crud from getting down in the injector bore. The seal is provided by the copper crush washer (NOTE it's "toothed" so has to be screwed onto the injector tip prior to reinstalling the injector. If you get an injector leak the base of the injector, including the area above the "O" ring, will get really gunked up and that only get's worse with time. Absent the injector removal tool then LOTS of penetrating lube and careful back and forth rotation of the injector is the trick. Be careful of the plastic fuel line return block, it breaks easily.

Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Gypsy62 wrote: Thanks for the response. I'm living in Ensenada, so it seems improbable that any LJ members are nearby to loan the special tool, but nice idea. Being in MX is also the reason I'm extra-weary about causing any damage while doing the washer/o-ring replacement; the Chrysler dealer here said the KJ CRD's were never sold in Mexico so it's comparatively harder to obtain any parts. I'm going to continue the #4 extraction battle in the AM. It sounds like some urging with a carefully leveraged crowbar is in order. Re injector's 29mm top, are you saying that it's a calibrated fit? If so, that means my reward for being CRD-injector clueless should be a party when i reinstall. Great. I'll just try to dial the torque back to what it was. Hopefully it won't be too bad. Thanks for your time! I don't know what's in there, but I bet that it's just a cap. Luckily it's not that much work to replace it if it's damaged. I would look up a rebuild procedure if I was you, so hopefully the final assembly answers the question whether or not you damaged it. There was one on ebay for $100 last night, they are usually more like $200 on there. The factory tool grabs it where the crows foot fits, and pulls strait up. I have pried a couple out, but it can be tough.

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Author:	Gypsy62 [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Trying to erase my redundant posts but I can't find a 'delete' tab in edit menu.

Author:	Gypsy62 [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
: <[(%)

Author:	rankom [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
good thing you were able to pull that injector out , but my opinion is that somebody had it out before and didn't use reamer tool to cut injector cup to get copper washer to seal properly .MY ADVICE , get this tool and clean injector cup , and take that injector to BOSCH for testing and calibration.

Author:	Gypsy62 [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Bought/installed 2 used injectors to cure my careless disassembly (above). Installed Kennedy, wrestled with air-bleeding to rail, back rolling., whoopee... Rather than disconnecting the #1 injector's fuel line to confirm fuel flow, it seems like the line at the front of the fuel rail (coming up from the cp3) is equally telling and far more accessible.

Author:	Mountainman [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Gypsy62 wrote: Back together. Cranks, no start. 3/4 tank. Bled air out at fuel-head fitting; there was lots of air, but it's now priming strong and clear. Pulled #1's fuel supply&return lines; no flow either hand-priming@head or cranking. Normal operation, cranking should whiz fuel out the line at any injector, no? I have a Kennedy electric fuel pump waiting to go in. Should have done that before messing with the fuel system at engine! Triple checked all plug connects. Only mod is from Weeks 1/2, egr & maf plugs disconnected. But it was running fine post-weeks/pre-pulling #4. Even if #4 incorrectly reassembled/installed, senor Jeep should still start on other 3, albeit run like crap, no? I'm in Mexico, so any and all suggestions welcome and appreciated. Will hunt threads for ideas. Thanks I crack the line at #1 where it joins the rail. It can take a 3-5 8 second cranks before it sprays fuel. Then you close it, and it usually fires up in about 5 seconds. You'd have to have a pretty huge air leak, or maybe clogged filter to get no fuel. If it doesn't start after you get fuel spraying, then charge the battery, because if it falls below during crank, it won't fire injectors.

Author:	Gypsy62 [ Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Great info. Thanks! I'm gonna juice the battery overnight, and install the Kennedy tomorrow. Also, regarding "reamer" observation, given that their was no air leak for 10k after purchase, I'm fairly confident the injector seal was compromised by the slow #4 fuel line leak and blame myself for delaying tightening the fuel line.

Author:	rankom [ Tue May 03, 2016 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
ok i see you are confident that fuel leak from fuel line did cause injector copper washer to spring puff puff leak. well once you finish calibrating that injector everything should be good to go and should start soon

Author:	Mountainman [ Tue May 03, 2016 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
I forgot to mention to wait 30 seconds to a minute between cranks so you don't toast your starter.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed May 04, 2016 10:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
When you pulled #4 injector did you disconnect any other electrical connection in the same general area? I ask because the #4 injector connection is identical to another one in the same area (fuel pressure I think???) in any case if you accidentally swap connectors engine will crank but not fire.

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Author:	Gypsy62 [ Sun May 15, 2016 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Re electrical connectors, thanks for heads-up. I sprayed all contacts with electrical-connector cleaner and triple-checked they're fully engaged. Also insured that plugs were not swapped; wire's "shape memory" usually reliable for reattachment, and someone's note that "two rear sensor wires near #4 injector are usually electrical-taped separately from #4 wire" both accurate and helpful.

Author:	Hexus [ Sun May 15, 2016 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Gypsy62 wrote: Re electrical connectors, thanks for heads-up. I sprayed all contacts with electrical-connector cleaner and triple-checked they're fully engaged. Also insured that plugs were not swapped; wire's "shape memory" usually reliable for reattachment, and someone's note that "two rear sensor wires near #4 injector are usually electrical-taped separately from #4 wire" both accurate and helpful. The best procedure I've found (it was my wife's idea) is to use Butterfly bandaids on the wires, then write where the wire goes on the fat part of the bandaid.

Author:	geordi [ Sun May 15, 2016 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ALL IN for injector removal procedure
Identifying the wires and where they go is easy, based on how they are taped together. Sensors like to play well with others, injectors work alone. The sensor wires are taped together outside the loom. The injectors all have their own connection direct from the loom.