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Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84612		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  samse2101 [ Sun May 15, 2016 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
Hi CRD-owners, :wink:

this time i´m in deep doo-doo i think.... :x but first the facts:

#Milage: 194800 km/ about 121k miles

# today at 11 a.m. i started the cold engine, all instruments are ok, no difficult or strange start-up, after about 7min driving time in town (about 65ft in front of a crossroads) a rubbing sound comes from the front axle/ engine bay.

#At first i thought it sounds like the rubbing from my MT wheels on a part of the suspension or body. no warning lamps at this time!

#a few meters more horsepower loss and a few seconds later the engine stalled. Oil- and Battery-warninglamps on

#Transmission at N and so i rolled the last ft over the crossroads and the next parking lot, turned the ignition off, opened the engine hood and nothing on first sight. Also no liquid on the street.

#Next look at the coolant reservoir -> empty?? :shock: Coolant lines pressed -> no pressure in?? WTF! :x Back to the exhaust an i saw somthing like this (this is a cigarette smoke, but it looked like that, just a little bit less)
Image

#From the time, the strange sounds started i didn´t look at the exhaust smoke... :(

#between starting the strange sounds and the parking lot were about 650ft.

#Ingnition test made (with key) -> DTC P1511 and the orange lamp for low coolant is lighting.

#Temperature after stalled engine was normal, no overheating

#Checked also the oils of engine and transmission -> no water and at the engine oil filler hole also no foam. no leaks of fluids at the underside of the body. At this time i thought:
Image

First thoughts are: block cracked, or better just the head or only the head gasket. Anyone some other ideas where the coolant is gone?

bye,
samse :roll:
Author:  rankom [ Sun May 15, 2016 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
this is not good , ok don't crank it any more , add coolant and pressure test it . pull glow plugs too ,,,,
Author:  jws84_02 [ Sun May 15, 2016 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
Water pump? But that would leave evidence of coolant loss. But I'm afraid it's a valve that went bye bye
Author:  samse2101 [ Mon May 16, 2016 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
rankom wrote:
this is not good , ok don't crank it any more , add coolant and pressure test it . pull glow plugs too ,,,,
i understand, but does such a set work for me? -> http://www.ebay.at/itm/Kuhler-Druck-Pru ... SwezVW0GR~

it makes pressure up to 35psi, is this enough?

jws84_02 wrote:
Water pump? But that would leave evidence of coolant loss. But I'm afraid it's a valve that went bye bye
Waterpump was changed 35k km before at the same time with the timing belt
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon May 16, 2016 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
Maybe you'll get really lucky and the head is just cracked, and it hydro-locked the engine, effectively saving it. The one I just opened that was run without much water for a minute incinerated the top of piston #2, but still seems to have not bent a rod. It is really full of water/coolant and I think that's what stopped it from turning.

It should have been loud if it dropped a valve, no?
Author:  samse2101 [ Mon May 16, 2016 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
Thanks for reading first... :wink:

Now back to the funny news:

#battery voltage is 11.89V -> good

#at the moment i know where the coolant is:
Image

after degreasing the oil dipstick and new measurement it looked like this:
Image

#all glow plugs look like this:
Image

#and no -> the engine is not able to rotate by hand, not even a milimeter... :x


Diagnosis: -> not fine, BUT for me it seems all this happend in the 7mins driving time after start. Like i said: the coolant warning lamp didn´t light at the vehicle start yesterday... :| :?: And i drove also last week every day 2x per day about 20min with my car...

Options for me:

#engine swap (don´t like this tought)
#remove engine by myself and rebuild it
#remove engine and let it rebuild by company
#make an insurance an burn it down
#swap an other engine in -> but which? it has to be still a diesel, does anyone know such an swap (maybe WK 3.0CRD)? Or 2.8CRD of JK with 200hp?
#press it (but the body is rust free and a new OME in.... :cry: )


bye,
samse
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
that's really lame :banghead:

On the bright side, the bottom end may be ok. You might be able to slap in a used piston, sleeve and maybe some new bearings and a used head, and be back on the road. Waiting to see what it looks like under the head :?:
Author:  geordi [ Mon May 16, 2016 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
Yeah, it looks like you may have dumped a valve. That doesn't have to be noisy, I've pulled apart a few engines now that have dropped valves, and the results have been all over the map. Some were noisy like rocks in a blender, others "just stalled" and that was it, but same result.

if the block won't rotate, that is very bad news and you definitely need to pull the injectors and head to see what the pistons look like. The two that I have worked on that were completely frozen ended up that the piston had TILTED in the bore, punching out the cylinder wall entirely from the valve damage. I don't think that is recoverable, but maybe you will have better luck with rebuilding.

Let us know what you find and we can offer more assistance. Good luck with the teardown. If you need parts, just let us know - I'm currently in possession of quite the collection, and a detailed inventory will be available once I get my own CRD finished being assembled.
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon May 16, 2016 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
come to think of it. I have seen two that had massive HG failures, and they dumped the coolant in the oil fast, which I'm hoping just hydro locked the engine. Neither of them would turn over, but one was just binding on collapsed rockers, the other one had the incinerated piston.

The engine with the broken rockers, I shut it down quickly as the temp spiked really high, and the head and everything was actually just fine, and is back in service after a milling. I'm surprised how tough everything is on these engines except the rockers, head bolts, and occasional valve.

Such a short distance though, after thinking about it, I agree with Jim, I think you dropped a valve :banghead: Unless you all of the sudden developed a large crack in the head, that then lifted the head and blew the HG, and hydrolocked it. Sorry man, I hope it's better than expected :cry:
Author:  rankom [ Mon May 16, 2016 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
yes this is a typical italian engine , it either works perfectly or its blows up with out warning , yeah i was able to beat BMW in a race back in old days with my 125 s fiat but i had to rebuild it every year LOL ,,,,, i say go a head and rebuild it again .
Author:  samse2101 [ Tue May 17, 2016 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
hi guys, :wink:

i´m too very curious about what really happend inside the engine, but until the WE i can´t work on the vehicle. And first of all i´ll pull the engine out, is not much more work than working on the engine build in.... :roll:

but i´m really thinking of an engine swap -> does anyone have an idea which engine would or could fit?

bye,
samse
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue May 17, 2016 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
samse2101 wrote:
hi guys, :wink:

i´m too very curious about what really happend inside the engine, but until the WE i can´t work on the vehicle. And first of all i´ll pull the engine out, is not much more work than working on the engine build in.... :roll:

but i´m really thinking of an engine swap -> does anyone have an idea which engine would or could fit?

bye,
samse


The only diesel that came in the Liberty was the VM 2.8L.
With the right bellhousing adapter plate, motor mounts, and whatever other parts, any engine can be put in there. But its gonna be a lot of work and you would have to figure it all out on your own.

A Cummins 4BT is a popular swap for older Jeeps. Its big (tall) and heavy. Would need stronger front springs to hold it up and might need to cut a hole in the hood to make room for the tall valve covers. Do a straight front axle swap and you could create a serious monster :frankie:
Better yet, get a 2.2L twin turbo engine out of a GLK250. I have no idea how you would make all the electronics work but I'm sure you could figure it out :wink:
Money is no object, right? :-)r

In other words, unless you have great fabrication skills, unlimited time, and unlimited money, its best to just replace with what was originally in there.

Engine swaps were fun on old muscle cars but modern electronics make the whole process a lot more difficult and expensive :2cents:
Author:  samse2101 [ Tue May 17, 2016 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
:x That´s not the answer i hoped to get... :dizzy:

Is there a thread where all the owners has posted their engine problems with the crd? :|

bye,
samse
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
samse2101 wrote:
:x That´s not the answer i hoped to get... :dizzy:

Is there a thread where all the owners has posted their engine problems with the crd? :|

bye,
samse


Not really, just many threads. I agree with flash, get a used engine installed, or have a qualified mechanic put in a new piston and sleeve (my guess). Even if it did wipe a cylinder, if you get used parts, it shouldn't be all that expensive, except for the labor. Do you have to pay the excise tax to order parts from the UK? Or are there lots of salvage places to get a new head from in Austria or close? If you collect the used parts, it shouldn't be too bad to get it fixed.
Author:  samse2101 [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
That´s a good question -> since i´m searching this forum i´ve many times read about getting parts from UK? I´ve no extra taxes if i order there, are there the parts so much cheaper? :shock:

Does anyone have an example (a cylinderhead)? then i can try to search an offer for this in germany or austria too... :wink:
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
samse2101 wrote:
That´s a good question -> since i´m searching this forum i´ve many times read about getting parts from UK? I´ve no extra taxes if i order there, are there the parts so much cheaper? :shock:

Does anyone have an example (a cylinderhead)? then i can try to search an offer for this in germany or austria too... :wink:


The UK company is VM Diesel Specialist, and they have good prices, but they can be a serious pain. I have had a lot of trouble with them, but maybe they just don't like to deal with the export shipping to the US, not sure. It think you will be fine since you are close. They do have good parts at a good price, and I think they can even get you an entire engine. No clue on cost of rebuilt engines. But, a local salvage yard may be a better bet, but it will almost certainly need some rockers, and may even come with a nice HG leak. I would plan on adding ARP head studs and new rockers to any used engine while it is out of the Jeep and easy to work on.
Author:  samse2101 [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
funny -> a vm specialist in GB... :D

but i´m living 30 miles away from the italian border, so i think the parts of the R 428 DOHC of the VM Motori S.p.A. will be cheaper from italy... :lol: i hope so... :wink:

bye,
samse
Author:  geordi [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
You may actually be able to buy an entire crate motor direct from VM if you are that close, and then rent / borrow a truck to go get it and save on the shipping. I'd do that in a heartbeat if I was in your location. The cost might be a few shekels more than a used engine, but you would get a fresh start and could then pull your old one apart in your own time and discover what happened, and then sell off the parts. Cars and engines are always worth more as individual parts anyway.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
geordi wrote:
You may actually be able to buy an entire crate motor direct from VM if you are that close, and then rent / borrow a truck to go get it and save on the shipping. I'd do that in a heartbeat if I was in your location. The cost might be a few shekels more than a used engine, but you would get a fresh start and could then pull your old one apart in your own time and discover what happened, and then sell off the parts. Cars and engines are always worth more as individual parts anyway.


x2 and please let us know what the prices are. I'm curious what you can get an engine for, versus Chrysler charging a small fortune for one. Not that it will help us any, since exporting an engine is cost prohibitive.
Author:  samse2101 [ Tue May 17, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing
a new engine, why not... :wink:

tomorrow i´ll call the local partner of VM Motori here in Klagenfurt -> [url=https://www.google.at/maps/place/Werner+Aichwalder+Motoren-und+Dieselwerkstätte+GmbH,+Schwendnergasse+5,+9020+Klagenfurt+am+Wörthersee/@46.6135899,14.3098869,14z/data=!4m5!1m2!2m1!1saichwalder+klagenfurt!3m1!1s0x47700b4cfc60b4a3:0x5e91f60e7165f9c9]Aichwalder GMBh Klagenfurt[/url]

maybe a new engine isn´t that much expensive... :D i´ll also try to get a parts- and pricelist of the R 428 DOHC and the A 428 DOHC by them... :wink:

bye,
samse
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