Bad Mprop?

rankom · **Posted:** Mon May 30, 2016 6:53 pm

again ,,,, and again ,, if you're loosing fuel pressure ? only way to check is to hook up gauge (CP# to rail) but only diesel fuel shop have this tool , so you can monitor it with your scan tool , and next step is , cap injectors one at time to see if rail pressure increase . or like others suggested you can pull them out for inspection , or like you say diesel shop will do it for you.

rankom · **Posted:** Tue May 31, 2016 10:01 pm

just a thought , removing injectors and testing them should be cheap enough so i don't see why not cap them or removed them or do something with them guys its only 30 to 50 $ to do this test . ok i know they don't fail that easy , but testing them is very important , as we know how much fuel they had to pump in 10 years or so . or in worst case scenario something happened internally and damaged them.

Patrick Henry · **Posted:** Tue May 31, 2016 11:58 pm

Yes, I was considering that after installing a new crank position sensor tomorrow and depending where that goes, that I could pull the injectors, check their tips and compression check the cylinders using the injector wells. That way I could rule out a dropped valve before taking it into the shop.

In fact, if I do find a dropped valve, I won't bother taking it to the shop; this baby will go on the sale block as-is or for salvage. I'm on the ragged edge now thinking how much money replacing a CP3 would take.

Let's see, Since new in 2005 I have replaced two TCs, one turbocharger, one CAC, three Turbo inlet elbows, one oil pan, one complete engine harness, one fuel head, one fan relay, 16 rocker arms & lifters, one water pump. Enhancement added are a GDE full torque tune and cables, SQ EGR delete kit, HOT 203F Thermostat, and Provent. I've got a Carter tank lift pump, Hayden fan clutch and GM plastic fan all new in the box. All I wanted was to get another 100k miles. :POPCORN:

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:55 am

If you go toward selling it... Contact me first about some of those parts. You have quite the list.

dhenderz · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:26 am **Posts:** 164

Patrick - if you do end up needing a CP3 PM me. I have a good one that I will sell to you inexpensively. Depending on your location shipping could get costly.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:55 am

A new one from idparts.com is not that badly priced... I believe about 1200?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:30 am

I see them on e-bay for about $250.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:02 pm

Mountainman wrote:

I see them on e-bay for about $250.

Those are remans for sure. Good alternative if you don't want new or under a budget. But I wonder how "legit" those are, considering the rebuild kit is well over 100 us bucks...

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:56 pm

thermorex wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

I see them on e-bay for about $250.

Those are remans for sure. Good alternative if you don't want new or under a budget. But I wonder how "legit" those are, considering the rebuild kit is well over 100 us bucks...

I'm not sure about remans, but I see the junkyard ones for about that much. Even if you had to buy 2 of them, it would be only be 500. But, they fail so rarely, that I bet one would do.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:15 am

Mountainman wrote:

thermorex wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

I see them on e-bay for about $250.

Those are remans for sure. Good alternative if you don't want new or under a budget. But I wonder how "legit" those are, considering the rebuild kit is well over 100 us bucks...

I'm not sure about remans, but I see the junkyard ones for about that much. Even if you had to buy 2 of them, it would be only be 500. But, they fail so rarely, that I bet one would do.

Oh, right, used parts. I didn't think about it, duh... Mine failed at the bearing, it started to make noises.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:21 am

Most stuff I wouldn't go used, but CP3's are probably good for 500k miles, although they are a pain to change. I guess if one really was bad, it wouldn't be so hard to beat it out of there with a hammer. I still see 95% of the time that it was a rail sensor, a wire, a pin at the ECU, or just a massive air leak when people change the CP3 :banghead:

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:01 pm

Mine went bad at the bearing... And that made me replace every single front engine bearing. And I ended up replacing the pump, after which the noise disappeared. It is theoretically easy to replace the cp3, the hard part is having the rightpulley remover for the sprocket and then fighting corrosion that is in between the pump collar and the pump bracket. I ended up butchering mine with dremel and hammer, after I lost my patience to play nice.

I have to open it and look if the bearing is sealed or lubricated by diesel, I had filled up with gasoline a while ago, thinking I pump diesel. Grabbed the wrong pump and stopped when I smelled gasoline. That pump had all handles black and I was somewhere in lala land when I fueled...

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:21 pm

thermorex wrote:

Mine went bad at the bearing... And that made me replace every single front engine bearing. And I ended up replacing the pump, after which the noise disappeared. It is theoretically easy to replace the cp3, the hard part is having the rightpulley remover for the sprocket and then fighting corrosion that is in between the pump collar and the pump bracket. I ended up butchering mine with dremel and hammer, after I lost my patience to play nice.

I have to open it and look if the bearing is sealed or lubricated by diesel, I had filled up with gasoline a while ago, thinking I pump diesel. Grabbed the wrong pump and stopped when I smelled gasoline. That pump had all handles black and I was somewhere in lala land when I fueled...

Yeah, easy to do. I grabbed the wrong handle the other day, luckily I had hit the diesel button, so it didn't start pumping when I squeezed the handle

I had a friend who's wife smoked their TDI with gas, sad story...

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:37 pm

I'm starting to have a collection of CP3 pumps as well - If you need one, message me. I know my CRD will only need one, so I will be posting a CRD parts garage sale soon too of all the extras that I have been locating.

Patrick Henry · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:28 am

Well, I don't think I need a CP3 after all. One last thought I had was maybe the timing belt had slipped or I was off a tooth having recently changing the timing belt. I've rolled this engine plenty of times by hand so I know what it feels and sounds like doing that. So I rolled the crankshaft by hand-wrenching and I hit a hard stop at approximately 350 degrees and back around at 10 degrees. I rolled it back to 90 degrees and checked the camshafts and they are spot on. However the fuel pump pulley mark is off so far that I cannot see it. I know I set it up on the mark when I did the TB. Something has changed and I am stumped. It as running great up to the point it died. I am tempted to put the cams into the locked position, remove the TB, and roll the crankshaft to see if I still get a hard stop on turning.

Thoughts?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:22 am

First things first: The fuel pump will only line up with the mark and the pins in the cams on every 6th rotation, so it doesn't surprise me that it isn't visible. You don't know where in the cycle of 6 you are. That is unimportant however, you have a hard stop when you shouldn't.

Rotating the crank while the cams are pinned will only bring you to a hard stop, as two valves are held open on each cam at the point of being 90ATDC and pinned.

What you would need to do is remove the pins, and rotate the cams clockwise each about 1/12 rotation and they will spring to a point where all the valves are closed. NOW you can rotate the crank until the end of time, and you won't hit anything. If you do find a hard stop though... You most likely have valve damage and will need to pull it apart to at least the rockers to see what happened, and probably remove the head too.

Patrick Henry · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:13 am

geordi, you are right. I was up pretty late last night wrenching on the jeep and brain drained as well.

After putting the cams in the valves closed position the crankshaft stops hard at the two same positions as before. I also rotated each cam individually to if I could detect any rough spots or binding as the lobes broke over. I thought I could feel a a spot on each cam where the lobes did not snap cleanly over but it was difficult to tell when attempting to repeat where in the rotation it happened.

Anyhoo, I'm done with it. :dead:

The boss sez when I sell it, it all goes out as a package and no-piece parting. Since I have it torn down to the TB removed I will box up the loose parts and put 'em in the back. I will list a posting in the "for sale" section of the forum with a complete listing of what is installed and what comes with the jeep.

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:58 pm

yes it is very difficult to see why engine won't bar over and stops? , these engines have lots of compression , not like gas ones, they spin easy.

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:12 pm

and yes cummins back in old days had decompression button on there engines so they can be started easier ,why vm didn't install this feature i don't know , but at the same time they had air starters too (NOT ELECTRIC) o boy they spin so fast , that engine started so fast .but too bad old boys retired and new guys are coming with new ideas….

Patrick Henry · **Posted:** Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:03 pm

I have lowered the price of my non-running Libby in the "For Sale by Members" section of this. If nobody is interested, it is going to HelpKidswithCancer charity come Monday. The spare parts I have will sell separately.

Bad Mprop?

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