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I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnose it
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84829		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnose it
I posted this in the regular liberty section not realizing there was a better forum, I apologize for the double post.

I purchaced a 2005 Liberty CRD with the front end disassembeled to the timing belt, timing belt still in place.

140,000 miles

Original belt

I looked for factory timing marks but only saw perminant marker marks, I'd like to see if there is a way to check the timing before I disassemble it any further.

I'm sure if I removed the head I could check everything, but I'd like to avoid going deeper than I need to.

The seller stated it sounded like air was escaping from the intake valves, I don't have much to go on beyond that.

Any help or direction would be appreciated, I'd like to get this one fixed up and running so I can do more fun things to it.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
These engines have no timing marks except for the injection pump. Instead they use special pins, one for the intake cam, one for the exhaust cam, and one for the crank.

Sounds like there could already be damage or a boost leak. Any rate at 140k miles its time to change the belt. Go ahead and pop the belt off and take off the valve cover/ intake to check for any broken rockers. It will be easier to time everything, the cams can be spun by hand and then locked in, and the engine should spin over easier so you can lock it too. These motors require patience to keep everything in time, definitely not as easy as the old school diesels where you just lined up arrows and you were done. But once you get the idea of this technique its not bad.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
Ditto on what diesel guy said. Your gonna want to go ahead and take the valve cover off and inspect the rockers and make sure it didn't drop a valve. Once again, there are no timing marks. Well there is a mark on the crank and that will need to be at 3 o clock and then each cam does have indents once the cam gears are off. Those need to be facing eachother(3 & 9 o'clock) and then locking pins can go in
Author:  geordi [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
Where are you located?

If you need assistance with the work, especially digging into it to the top end - I am the travelling mechanic for these. The description could mean the rockers have been damaged as a potential cause, but it is not clear yet. But at 140k miles and 12 years old, that belt is WAY WAY beyond its use-by date.

I would advise against even starting it until the belt is replaced and the timing validated, which will require pins to accomplish. Sounds like the previous owner or his mechanic was trying to resolve the noise complaint and started pulling it apart, before discovering that they were WAY over their heads and panicked and just sold it off. I would be concerned that they botched the timing job instead, and possibly already broke rockers. I've seen it happen before.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
This is a fairly good "How to" on the timing belt & timing everything. http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html

You will have to either purchase some unique tools that is required to index the two cams and the flywheel (aka flexplate) to get all rotating parts in the correct position. It requires pins for the cams and a pin for the flywheel and a tool to hold the cam gear if you have to remove the front cover to replace the water pump which most people do while they are replacing the timing belt. The injection pump pulley does have an index mark that should be aligned with a corresponding index mark on inner cover... Or contact geordi :D

Image
Author:  geordi [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
FYI, the timing mark for the fuel pump is actually on the inner cover, not on the block. It is impossible to see when the bolt is installed, so it may be helpful to set the pulley in the right position and then scribe a mark to the pulley and cover where they can be easily seen.

Any paint marks on the cam pulleys mean less than nothing - the cam pulleys are infinitely adjustable and not keyed. You set the timing with the pins, and then using a holding tool on the pulleys, tighten (or loosen) the cam pulley bolts.
Author:  wilco549 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
You can change the belt without the special alignment pins...just take your time and keep things aligned. I've slept a few times since I change mine a few years ago but I know I did not buy or make pins. I think I used the cam marks, belt marks and some reference points one the block. I'll see if I can find the DIY guide I used but here is another good one with the pins:
http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html
Author:  flash7210 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
wilco549 wrote:
You can change the belt without the special alignment pins...just take your time and keep things aligned. I've slept a few times since I change mine a few years ago but I know I did not buy or make pins. I think I used the cam marks, belt marks and some reference points one the block. I'll see if I can find the DIY guide I used but here is another good one with the pins:
http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html


This is true. But only if you started with the cams and crank already in-time and lock the cams together so they dont move. And only if you dont replace the water pump. Which is exactly how I did my first t-belt change.

But if you need to remove the inner timing cover to replace the water pump or to remove the intake/valve cover then you will definitely need the pins.

And that cheap timing tool set pictured above might work once. I bought the set, used it and threw it away.
You will also need a tool to hold the camshaft sprockets for removal and installation.
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
Thanks for all the pointers, I believe I am starting to understand how it all should line up, based on the 3'o'clock mark on the crank and timing pins all seems to be in line timing wise, now that I understand how to put it back together I feel better about removing the valve cover, it looks like the aluminum cover holds the cams in place like a Volvo. And is the intake manifold part of the valve cover?

Thanks again, tools don't look too expensive.
Author:  Rixram [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
NapaBavarian wrote:
Thanks for all the pointers, I believe I am starting to understand how it all should line up, based on the 3'o'clock mark on the crank and timing pins all seems to be in line timing wise, now that I understand how to put it back together I feel better about removing the valve cover, it looks like the aluminum cover holds the cams in place like a Volvo. And is the intake manifold part of the valve cover?

Thanks again, tools don't look too expensive.


You should post your location so that other members may be able to Avail themselves to help you.

Your first timing belt job is better if you have a little bit of support.
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
I'm about twenty minutes outside of Napa an hour north of San Francisco.

As I look at timing kits they all look about the same with prices ranging from $35-$95 either red or black case, is there a difference in quality?

It looks like I can make the arm for sprocket removal out of some small angle iron for a few dollars. I might as well make the timing pins myself if the quality of the kits isn't great.

I will try to get the valve covers off tomorrow, perhaps I can see the rocker arms and tops of the valves at that point.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
As far as I know there is no difference in them cheap eBay kits. I think the higher priced ones are just trying to screw you more. I was gonna mention, and not sure how disassembled the jeep is but don't try to remove the cam gears with only pins. You will bust the valve cover up.
Author:  Rixram [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
WWDiesel wrote:
This is a fairly good "How to" on the timing belt & timing everything. http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html

You will have to either purchase some unique tools that is required to index the two cams and the flywheel (aka flexplate) to get all rotating parts in the correct position. It requires pins for the cams and a pin for the flywheel and a tool to hold the cam gear if you have to remove the front cover to replace the water pump which most people do while they are replacing the timing belt. The injection pump pulley does have an index mark that should be aligned with a corresponding index mark on inner cover... Or contact geordi :D

Image


I tried this one out. That timing belt tensioner is good for one use.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
You really only need the locating pins for the two camshafts. The crankshaft pin is a waste and you don't need the tensioning tool from that crappy kit. What you want to do is purchase the timing belt tensioner tool made by metalnerd and sold at ID Parts. It is listed under the Volkswagen ALH or 1999 to 2003 Volkswagen TDI tools. Much better quality and not that expensive for the tensioner.
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
I carefully removed fuel rail, injectors (didn't need left middle finger anyway) and valve cover bolts, it feels like there is a hidden connection valve cover to block on the drivers side. I also have the back cover behind the timing belt lose.

I found engine oil in the valley at the back of the valve cover.

As for tools, perhaps a Chinese pin kit and a good quality belt tensioner tool? Last time I changed atiming belt was probably 15 years ago, I believe I did my Subaru (non interference) and BMW m20 (life or valve death matter).

When I go to town and have better cell service later today I'll look at some other sites I found timng tool links to in this forum. I'd like to get this running properly pronto, too many broken and junk cars in the yard.
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
I found good pins for $55 so I'll order those and I got all the parts for can gear removal, $42 + tax, but I can get that valve cover off tonight and hopefully figure out if I need to remove the head. I'd like to get a parts list soon, I'll try to read this forum a bit more to see if I'm missing anything.

Is there a problem with the lifters? I've read the rockers are designed weak to save valve damage but nothing about lifters.
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
I tried to post a photo but ucp shows general error when I open my gallery
Author:  NapaBavarian [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
It is open, valve cover off, before those details a quick back story. PO sold the vehicle, the next day failure ocoured, the bought it back and started opening it up, at that point he was only fixing it to sell it and didn't have the time or desire to repair a vehicle he was trying to get rid of.

Upon removal of tube to ?throttle body?, the part that bolts to the intake manifold, it could be an air flow meter, I have yet to find a diesel with a throttle body. Inside was wet with oil, I looked inside intercooler and found more oil, I would assume turbo seal unless someone can provide me with another idea or problem specific to this engine.

#2 cylinder,rear intake rocker broken in half, both exhaust rockers had the pin holding the cam roller broken and both rollers had fallen below the rockers into the head. I located both rollers, one pin, one needle bearing, and noticed at least one other rocker had the roller sitting low as if the needle bearings are failing.

I'll try to think up any more details if I can, any I put would be appreciated.
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
NapaBavarian wrote:

Upon removal of tube to ?throttle body?, the part that bolts to the intake manifold, it could be an air flow meter, I have yet to find a diesel with a throttle body. Inside was wet with oil, I looked inside intercooler and found more oil, I would assume turbo seal unless someone can provide me with another idea or problem specific to this engine.

#2 cylinder,rear intake rocker broken in half, both exhaust rockers had the pin holding the cam roller broken and both rollers had fallen below the rockers into the head. I located both rollers, one pin, one needle bearing, and noticed at least one other rocker had the roller sitting low as if the needle bearings are failing.

I'll try to think up any more details if I can, any I put would be appreciated.


That throttle body thingy is called the flow control valve (FCV) and it works with the EGR valve.
The oil you found was most likely from the crankcase vent (CCV) but it wouldn't hurt to inspect the turbo and make sure its bearings haven't gotten sloppy. Also check all the intake and intercooler hoses for holes or tears.
The oil from the CCV is the reason many of us install a Provent.
Also might want to inspect the MAP sensor and replace or clean it.

Just get a whole new set of rockers.
And make sure that the crank turns freely all the way around. Its happened where a needle bearing will get jammed up in the balance shafts.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I purchaced a disassembeled Liberty CRD, help me diagnos
This is sounding like the jeeps I buy. Anyway, as flash indicated. The oil in the intercooler isn't that big of a deal unless it's really a lot. What happens is our crankcase dumps right into our turbo inlet tube and allows oil through there. You should also check this tube(air box to turbo). Oil will rot out the bottom way. And you need to fully remove it to check it
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