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 Post subject: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Hi all,

My new old (2006, 130K miles) CRD has been leaking engine oil since I got it a year ago and up until now it was sort of tolerable, like few drops per day when parked in the garage. However lately the little spot on the floor is getting noticeably bigger and I am getting concerned. Apparently the leak is old because everything on the passenger side of the engine is pretty much soaked with oil. Looking up and forward as the popular theory suggests, I have found that my upper CAC hose is apparently seeping oil onto the turbo body which could be seen on this picture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Jol- ... sp=sharing

Most likely the hose is due for replacement, but I doubt it can leak as much as is observed on the floor - but prove me wrong, since replacing the hose is going to be the simplest (if not the cheapest) fix.

Taking picture from underneath (ughhhh), it is seen that there is a drop of oil hanging from the turbo oil drain tube, but also a drop of oil higher on the turbo body around the area where the drain tube is connected (both locations are marked with arrows):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Jol- ... sp=sharing

I am ready to add a fluorescent dye to the engine oil, but given the poor visibility around the area I am not sure if it is going to help. Basically I am trying to understand, if the leak is from the CAC hose, top end of the turbo oil return tube or turbo itself? The leak is pretty steady with car parked for several days if this is any helpful indication.

Any thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Alex

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:13 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
It's statistically more likely that the oil is coming from the CCV "puck" http://www.idparts.com/pcvccv-valve-liberty-crd-p-4417.html to the port just before the turbo entry VIA this tube. http://www.idparts.com/ccv-breather-tube-liberty-crd-p-3800.html alternately, https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/oe-mopar-pcvccv-valve-breather-tube-jeep-liberty-crd/ These rarely fail, though.

What they (in stock form) commonly destroy is the tube that connects the air filter box, to the turbo inlet. http://www.idparts.com/turbocharger-inlet-hose-liberty-crd-p-3804.html or https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/turbocharger-inlet-hose-for-jeep-liberty-2-8l-crd/

There is also a decent chance that the oil is dripping out at that point as well. It's best to check all possibilities, as oil does very bad things to rubber components.
If your CAC hoses are not the aftermarket silicone lined ones, that should be checked / remedied, as the stock rubber ones also rot from this, and don't heal themselves when the problem is fixed. I used IDParts' house-branded hoses, and have had no problem with them.


What will prevent the common rotting of this critical clean air hose, is a system that coalesces the oil droplets and vapor, and separates it from the air, before the air is re-introduced back into the intake portal. I used Provent 200. I believe the 150 would be enough for this engine. There are other brands, if there is another catch-can system you prefer / are familiar with.

https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/mann-provent-200-for-jeep-liberty-2-8l-crd/ or http://www.idparts.com/mann-provent-200-p-2334.html

This is a fairly simple thing to check, and probably should be checked, before putting dye into your oil. There is a great deal of air turbulence in this area due to the air from the engine driven cooling fan needing to get out somehow. That added to the high pressure front / low pressure rear air passing around the rt front tire and wheel, etc.

Whether or not this is where your oil is coming from, I did notice that your right side motor mount has also been soaking in this used motor oil, for who knows how long. It's the one that seems to go badly wrong first, but also the easiest one to change. IMHO

Either one of these suppliers are pretty universally loved for the way they take care of our little market segment, even internationally.

Multiple edits due to exceptionally poor typing, as well as proof-reading.

Yeah, another edit. I get the feeling you already know about this so I apologize if it seems to suggest you lacked the knowledge or experience. That is not my intent. I just want things to be clear for anyone who happens to read it, and may benefit from it, no matter their level of knowledge or experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:04 am 
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Hey man, thanks so much, no need to apologize! Personally I have absolutely no trouble with anyone telling me something I already know, as they say, rehearsing is the mother of learning. You certainly have brought up the ideas I haven't been thinking about simply because I have no intuition about all possible sources of leaks and the amount of oil they can generate in this engine. And what customer service will reply you in the middle of the night? You guys are awesome! Will post my findings precisely for the benefit of other noobs like myself.

Thanks again!
Alex

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2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:30 am 
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Its also possible that the turbo oil supply line just needs to be tightened.

But I agree. The most likely source is oil from the CCV hose, into the turbo inlet hose, dripping out of a hole in the inlet hose.
Leaks from the turbo oil drain tube are also possible.

Looks like your turbo oil drain tube has already been replaced with the updated "flex" tube.

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 Post subject: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:53 pm 
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I started getting a leak shortly after I switched back to the stock ccv configuration from the elephant hose mod and suspect it's the turbo boot as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:37 am 
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Well, oil leak hunt continues. I have taken off the top CAC hose and it feels like an oil-soaked sponge, apparently delivering oil not just to the turbo area, but also onto radiator/intercooler/whatever-it-is from its other end. Replacement ordered.

Taken off the turbo inlet hose with CCV hose attached. Yes, as it is seen here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Jol- ... sp=sharing

there is bunch of oil inside the hose, but it doesn't look and feel destroyed in any way short of a little asymmetry. There is a clear round trace from turbo nipple inside the hose, so it doesn't look like a source of oil leak. Maybe EGR disabled by GDE tune applied by previous owner saved this hose from premature failure. Ordered replacement nevertheless.

Now there is obviously oil film on the turbo, but it is not nearly as soaked with oil as its drain tube. Maybe because it is running hot (does it?)? Anyway, I can wait till the CAC hose arrives and then see if the leak goes away. However with blow-by sources of oil leak identified and potentially eliminated, I would still like to try the fluorescent dye method in case there is yet another leak. If there is, it would be easier to deal with it while the area is exposed (but for the life of me I still cannot find turbo oil supply tube :banghead: - flash7210 mentioned it as another possible culprit).

Question: what happens if I try to start and idle the engine with airbox and turbo inlet hose removed? Not that it is likely to do any harm, but would ECM (or whatever the engine brain is called in CRD) allow such a blasphemy (dysfunctional MAP sensor)? Will it throw codes at me? I would need to let engine idle for a while to let fluorescent dye propagate through the system.

Similarly, what about idling the engine with the top CAC hose removed (no boost apparently)?

Any info greatly appreciated as always,
Best,
Alex

P.S. Provent 200 with all the required hardware ordered.

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Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:48 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
You will need to remove the upper heat shield from the exhaust manifold to see clearly from above.

The turbo oil supply line is a steel tube that ends at the top of the turbo, in the center section between the turbine and compressor housings.
It's attached at this point by a banjo bolt.
You can follow it from there, towards the exhaust manifold as it turns to the rear of the vehicle to pass between the turbine housing and the exhaust manifold.
Then it bends directly downwards passing very close to the exhaust manifold, and turning into a compression fitting from the oil pressure galley that runs the length of the block.

A good image is Papaindigo's.

Image

I don't know how much it helps, but I "bagged" mine in a heat protecting sleeve (like spark plug wire protectors), to prevent the oil soaking up the exhaust/turbo heat even before getting to the turbo bearings.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
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Timing set
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eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

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Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
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GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Last edited by GordnadoCRD on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:52 pm 
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BoarX wrote:
P.S. Provent 200 with all the required hardware ordered.

That is a very good decision, you and your engine will be glad you did!!!! :wink:

As many have stated on here, this vehicle/engine should have come from the factory with a ProVent filter or a similar type of device installed... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
added image and context to last post.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:55 pm 
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OK, thanks guys, I see this turbo oil supply tube finally, at least it turbo end. Here is what I think is that banjo bolt:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Jol- ... sp=sharing

and it is surely covered with more oil than surrounding areas. Not sure yet what to make of it; time permitting will remove the heat shield the tube is hiding under and hopefully trace the full length of it.

Thanks again! A.

P.S. For some weird reason I am unable to embed images from Google Drive here, only links to them. Photobucket works though. Is it the difference between http:// and https:// ?

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:18 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I'm probably the last person you would want to ask about computer related stuffs. It took me days to figure out how to get photobucket to work. I'm still not really sure exactly why it wasn't working before, but won't press the question since it's working now.

Yes, you have found the banjo bolt. If you remove it, clean it well before removing, and remember to reassemble with 2 NEW copper washer-seals. While some may re-use these, it usually involves over-torquing the bolt to get them to seal properly again. It's better just to replace, even though they tend to be more expensive than one would expect a copper crush-washer to cost.

If it is the banjo fitting that's leaking, it's a fairly slow leak, as it would appear there isn't enough to clean the metal surrounding, as one would expect engine oil to do.

BoarX wrote:
I have taken off the top CAC hose and it feels like an oil-soaked sponge, apparently delivering oil not just to the turbo area, but also onto radiator/intercooler/whatever-it-is from its other end. Replacement ordered.

This is a condition that would explain both the oily wetness at the banjo fitting, as well as that forward from there, and above the compressor attachment flange.

This is where the oil dye could be helpful, if you clean and dry it thoroughly (brake or carb cleaner spray works well, but not indoors or while smoking). Check the clamps and attachments and ccv fittings making sure they are all clean and tight first.

I do suspect though, that replacing the CAC hose and clean-air intake duct, will take care of the leak in that general area, but will be even more able to fill the CAC with oil until you get your Provent installed.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:43 pm 
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I had similar problem that turned out to be intake vane seal on turbo itself, replacement turbo fixed it. I had already replaced gaskets on oil lines..

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:47 am 
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PANHEAD, could you please elaborate on how did the leak look like in your case? Replacing the turbo is quite an $$$$ endeavor...Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:31 am 
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First I replaced lower oil return line gasket, still leaking so next new copper seals on banjo, still leaked. I was leaving permanent 2" oil spots everywhere. Sprayed down turbo with brake cleaner and could see oil coming out where the turbo halves mate
( between silver side & brown side). Broke down and got new turbo from TurbochargerPros.com ($625) and that fixed it.

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06 CRD Limited/#2
Full OME suspension/Sway Bar Disconnects
ARB Bumper/ LEDs
SS Cat Back
Warn 8000
KC HID Daylighters (2)
Sasquatch EGR delete kit
ARP stud kit
Safari Snorkel
Suncoast TC
Alpine/ JL Audio
Clifford Remote Start
Netto Terra Grapplers 265/75/16
GDE Hot
Lift Pump
Sasquatch Battery Kit


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:16 am 
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Thanks mate, looks like my turbo is still OK, fingers crossed. Alex

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Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Top CAC and turbo intake hoses replaced, Provent,
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83541&p=912700#p912700
installed, 3 cans of CRC BraKleen (make whatever your imagination fancies out of such product label :oops: ) and 400 miles down the road, the underbelly of the engine looks dry and fluorescent dye test comes negative. Phew! Keeping my fingers crossed; thanks again everyone!

Question: I am now beginning to wonder how the inside of my intercooler looks like? It must be totally covered with oil which is unlikely to help its intended function. Naively one might try to flush it with some solvent or something, however is it worth it?

Happy July 4th!
A.

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Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:36 am 
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My jeep has 300,000km. Is it still worth installing a catch can for the oil?? TIA!

Cor


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 am 
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My jeep has 300,000km. Is it still worth installing a catch can for the oil?? TIA!

Cor


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:02 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Depends on your plans.
If you're keeping it as long as you can keep in on the road, I'd say definitely yes.
If not, then definitely maybe.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing oil leak around turbo area
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:57 am 
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Thanks for that lol sounds like recommended either way!! :P can I take that small hose that's putting the oil into the turbo and extend it and run it out to the bottom so it vmcan just drip? And then cap off the hole on the air side??


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