Small #4 glow plug?

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

I'm just doing my timing belt and decide to change out all my 4 glow plugs. When I took out #4 glow plug, i was surprised to see that it was half the size as the other glow plug and it looks different also. I don't think the ceramic part of it broke off. It just looks like a different glow plug overall. I tried putting in the regular size glow plug but it only goes in half way. There is no part # either so I can't search for anything. All other 3 glow plug are Bosch with white ring so I/m guessing they are ceramic.

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

Looks like the tip broke off from end of the thread and it is stuck in there. I cut the old glow plug in the middle and found similar material. Does anyone know how to remove the end tip that is still stuck in the hole?

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78338&start=20

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

Ceearedeedriver wrote:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78338&start=20

Thanks for posting that. But my situation is a little different so I'm not sure if that method will work. I confirmed that the end of the plug is still stuck in the hole by small fiber optic camera that I was able to fit inside the hole. The tip is somehow fused/stuck there, possibly due to carbon buildup. That at least helps me feel relieved that nothing else is damage internally since the plug is still in its place. I don't want to push it and drop it in cause then I will definitely have to remove the head to remove it, I also tried putting a magnet through the hole to pull it but no luck there. Anyone have any other idea. The other thing that makes this difficult is this is the #4 plug so its a little bit difficult to work with since its too far of a reach and more things in the way compared to #1 plug.

Thanks for your help.

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

Does our glow plug/cylinder head anything like that?

I am asking cause it looks like the opening of the plug in the pictures gets narrower so the metal shaft won't get dropped in to the cylinder chamber even if it gets loose from top? I was thinking about soaking some
Pb blaster/carb cleaner to dissolve the gunk and try removing it from top of the hole? Any input?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:12 pm

Looks like according to your pictures that about half the GP is still stuck in the hole so driving just the tip into the cylinder for retrieval is not an option in your case like was done on the shared post above?
Some things I would try before pulling the head. Mind you one is a kinda out of the ordinary procedure and must be done very carefully to maintain safety.
First, fill hole with PB Blaster or CRC Freeze-Off Super Penetrant and let soak over night or for 12 hrs. or better.
Place some heavy rags or towels over GP hole and remove injector and rotate engine by hand till piston is at top with all valves closed. (happens every other rotation) can feel in injector hole with a long thin screwdriver or piece of solid wire for when piston is at top dead center (TDC)
Then blow high pressure compressed air into cylinder via injector hole and see if air pressure alone will dislodge GP and blow it out.

If that does not work, next I would put injector back in place and bolt it down. Probably going to need a new seal washer for injector if this works.
Soak GP some more with penetrant oil.
Remove starter relay in the power distribution center, make a small jumper wire if you do not already have one, then jumper connection pins number 30 to number 87 and spin motor over and hopefully compression will dislodge GP and blow it out. Keep in mind, if this happens, the GP is going to come out of that hole LIKE A BULLET shot out of a rifle!!!! Be sure you have plenty of heavy rags or some heavy towels over hole to stop and catch what is left of GP.
VERY IMPORTANT WARING!!! Be absolutely sure you are standing in the front of the vehicle when performing this procedure and that no one is standing on the side of the vehicle or in any proximity of the GP hole!!!
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK if you try the last procedure and be safe!!!!

There are some tool kits available on line for broken GP removal but I have never used one so I cannot attest to their effectiveness..
If all else fails, pull head, check rockers and replace if needed, replace timing belt and any pulleys needed, and install head studs in place of head bolts. If I were to pull my head for any reason, I would also replace all of the exhaust valves since there have been quite a few instances of valves breaking (failure) and catastrophic engine damage incurred due to the broke valve.... :wink:

Best of luck, and keep up posted as to how everything comes out, no pun intended!!!!

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

WWDiesel wrote:

Looks like according to your pictures that about half the GP is still stuck in the hole so driving just the tip into the cylinder for retrieval is not an option in your case like was done on the shared post above?
Some things I would try before pulling the head. Mind you one is a kinda out of the ordinary procedure and must be done very carefully to maintain safety.
First, fill hole with PB Blaster or CRC Freeze-Off Super Penetrant and let soak over night or for 12 hrs. or better.
Place some heavy rags or towels over GP hole and remove injector and rotate engine by hand till piston is at top with all valves closed. (happens every other rotation) can feel in injector hole with a long thin screwdriver or piece of solid wire for when piston is at top dead center (TDC)
Then blow high pressure compressed air into cylinder via injector hole and see if air pressure alone will dislodge GP and blow it out.

If that does not work, next I would put injector back in place and bolt it down. Probably going to need a new seal washer for injector if this works.
Soak GP some more with penetrant oil.
Remove starter relay in the power distribution center, make a small jumper wire if you do not already have one, then jumper connection pins number 30 to number 87 and spin motor over and hopefully compression will dislodge GP and blow it out. Keep in mind, if this happens, the GP is going to come out of that hole LIKE A BULLET shot out of a rifle!!!! Be sure you have plenty of heavy rags or some heavy towels over hole to stop and catch what is left of GP.
VERY IMPORTANT WARING!!! Be absolutely sure you are standing in the front of the vehicle when performing this procedure and that no one is standing on the side of the vehicle or in any proximity of the GP hole!!!
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK if you try the last procedure and be safe!!!!

There are some tool kits available on line for broken GP removal but I have never used one so I cannot attest to their effectiveness..
If all else fails, pull head, check rockers and replace if needed, replace timing belt and any pulleys needed, and install head studs in place of head bolts. If I were to pull my head for any reason, I would also replace all of the exhaust valves since there have been quite a few instances of valves breaking (failure) and catastrophic engine damage incurred due to the broke valve.... :wink:

Best of luck, and keep up posted as to how everything comes out, no pun intended!!!!

Thanks, I'll give this a try. Just to make sure there is no risk that the glow plug will fall into the cylinder if the Pb blaster does loosen it up, it won't descends further down since the metal shaft is still connected, right?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:22 pm

The ceramic tip is the question, but what has happened is that someone overtightened the stainless steel shaft of the glow plug and that caused the collapse / shearing when you went to remove it. The actual seal of the glow plug hole is the tapered end of the stainless steel, so no, it cannot possibly fall into the cylinder.

Trying the rotate-the-engine methods is the most effective, but I would just start the motor rather than jacking around with the penetrants (you don't want them to drool into the cylinders and mess up the oil) or trying the compressed air.

I've had to deal with this on several engines and it is a cast-iron PITA every time. The only things I haven't done yet are trying to let the engine spit it out FIRST, before the reverse drills or anything else is tried. The advantage here is that even if the pressure doesn't eject the stainless steel shaft, if the ceramic is to go anywhere, it would be ejected from the hole and NOT HAVE ANY WAY to enter the cylinder. This is the best outcome, because then if you need to use the reverse drills or anything else, no ceramic can fall into the cylinder.

Have a helper watching from the front and have the towel backed away a little so you can see the bits come out. Use ear protection, it will be loud when the combustion chamber is open. Since there won't be any compression after the pieces come out, it won't be having any combustion either. It can run like this, but it won't be happy. You aren't hurting anything though. I'd leave the injectors where they are until you've tried this, that is a lot of work that maybe you won't need to do.

This is why I suggest changing out the ceramic plugs! Get rid of those things!

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

Update: I tried cranking the motor as suggested but no success. I tried it for 30 seconds continuously x 6 times. It doesn't look like it budged at all. It's on there pretty good. I was thinking about tapping a bolt in the hollow shaft and turning it in hopes that the bolt with grab the shaft and I can pull it out. Do you think that's a good idea or will I damage something in the process? I also don't have a compressor so i cant try the compressed air method. I did try sucking it out with a vacuum but that failed too.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:00 pm

Did you try soaking it with a good penetrating oil overnight? That GP piece left is carboned up and something has got to loosen that carbon it a little before the compression can move!
As to taping or drilling, there are a lot of broken GP removal tool sets available on the web, just Google it... :google:

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

WWDiesel wrote:

Did you try soaking it with a good penetrating oil overnight? That GP piece left is carboned up and something has got to loosen that carbon it a little before the compression can move!
As to taping or drilling, there are a lot of broken GP removal tool sets available on the web, just Google it... :google:

Yes, I soaked with pb blaster for over 16 hours, no luck. Maybe I'll try it again until I get the removal tool.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Cranking... Did the motor not start? What else is disconnected?

It will run on three cylinders, so I'm curious what is missing. You need more than just the 500psi of cylinder compression, you need the 2500 psi of combustion pressure to help you. It may also take a bit of revving.

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

geordi wrote:

Cranking... Did the motor not start? What else is disconnected?

It will run on three cylinders, so I'm curious what is missing. You need more than just the 500psi of cylinder compression, you need the 2500 psi of combustion pressure to help you. It may also take a bit of revving.

Unfortunately, I have the elbow off and radiator, intercooler, alternator, serpentine belt and also the fuel filter so the motor doesn't run. The timing belt is still attached, I am waiting to rent the tool.

I'm in process of doing the timing belt, new fuel head, and egr delete with Weeks kit. But while I was waiting for some part, I decided to remove the glow plug since the elbow was already removed.

Icecrd1669 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:05 pm **Posts:** 8

Since you may be going into it deeper to retrieve the glow plug could I suggest feeling inside the intake and determining if you have a large soot build up. I've removed and cleaned two intakes with very hot pressured water and degreaser. Be sure to clean dry and lubricate the cams after to prevent any other issues.
The amount of soot and carbon that can come out of these is mind blowing. This alone shows significant performance gains.

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

Icecrd1669 wrote:

Since you may be going into it deeper to retrieve the glow plug could I suggest feeling inside the intake and determining if you have a large soot build up. I've removed and cleaned two intakes with very hot pressured water and degreaser. Be sure to clean dry and lubricate the cams after to prevent any other issues.
The amount of soot and carbon that can come out of these is mind blowing. This alone shows significant performance gains.

Thanks, I'm actually in process of getting the whole intake manifold cleaned at the machine shop, the guy says he can get rid of the soot and get it cleaned for $30 so it's not a bad deal. But he recommends I remove the camshaft cause all the soot will get sprayed out and it might get stick on the camshaft. Do you have any experience on removing the camshaft?

Also, just to update the thread. I ended up taking the whole head off and was able to get the damaged glow plug removed at the machine shop for $40 without damaging the threads. But since I have the head off, I'm also doing other stuff to it. I will post pics and details of work later.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:46 am

Two very important things:
While you got that head off; you need to seriously consider replacing all the exhaust valves in the head and install ARP Head Studs instead of using the OEM type head bolts!
There have been several on this forum who have dropped an exhaust valve and the damage that incurs will be catastrophic and very expensive!!!! :grim:

IDParts has the studs>http://www.idparts.com/arp-head-stud-kit-liberty-crd-p-4044.htm
and the valves>http://www.idparts.com/exhaust-valve-liberty-crd-p-4281.html

The ARP head studs will provide better and more uniform clamping forces and help prevent any future head gasket leaks....

There is plenty of reading about both of these items on this forum if you do a search!!! :wink:

TerryZ91 · **Joined:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm **Posts:** 37

WWDiesel wrote:

Two very important things:
While you got that head off; you need to seriously consider replacing all the exhaust valves in the head and install ARP Head Studs instead of using the OEM type head bolts!
There have been several on this forum who have dropped an exhaust valve and the damage that incurs will be catastrophic and very expensive!!!! :grim:

IDParts has the studs>http://www.idparts.com/arp-head-stud-kit-liberty-crd-p-4044.htm
and the valves>http://www.idparts.com/exhaust-valve-liberty-crd-p-4281.html

The ARP head studs will provide better and more uniform clamping forces and help prevent any future head gasket leaks....

There is plenty of reading about both of these items on this forum if you do a search!!! :wink:

Thanks, yeah I'm doing arp studs, new valves and weeks delete kit while I have the head off.

undrgnd · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:47 am **Posts:** 194

Once this is all done and thr engine is purring, can you please post a video. I would love to hear what this engine sounds like woth all these new parts....subscribed. thanks

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:57 am

TerryZ91 wrote:

Thanks, yeah I'm doing arp studs, new valves and weeks delete kit while I have the head off.

Great!!!! You are making good decisions and all the improvements will be very worthwhile!
Getting rid of that crappy EGR, FCV, and EGR cooler will help improve the life of your engine!
Once you get it all back together and running, you will need one of the DIY tunes available on this forum to get rid of the DTC's that will be present from the unplugged EGR valve and FCV valve.... :wink:

How did the rockers look, were all of them in good shape? And what was your milage, just curious?

Small #4 glow plug?

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