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 Post subject: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
To all on the Lost Jeeps CRD Board
Noob guide read, and thanks to Sam, Geordi and a few others on here, it has made a difference already.
Here goes the novel,

Being a Diesel Novice, finding my first real problem with my new 05 crd ( 8) ) and having read a number of discussions finding regular contributors to be quite knowledgeable Decided to join .
I have read Sams Newb Guide and have done a couple of the suggestions already and will do a couple more this coming weekend.
My experience had been the rebuild of a couple 4 cylinder Hondas, nothing major and certainly not a diesel power plant. But point being not intimidate by mechanical tear down and repair.


So after a little introduction to my current opportunity.
I purchased my 05 liberty Unlimited CRD on 7.5.16 just outside Ann Arbor MI.
Previous owner kept records of fuel/ milage, service records, and part replacements.
He seemed a legitimate care taker of this great vehicle.
Loved my 06 Gasser and now my 05 CRD.
Fluids looked fine and no odd smell to any of them (burnt). He just had Diffs, transfer and Trans serviced.
It did and does presently have a known issue with the CV for the transfer to front drive line.
Previous owner replaced and secured with bolts from kit, no “locktite” and it came loose damaging it.
I proceeded to drive it 1926 miles back to Boise ID. No issues the whole trip. Back in Boise 7.7.16
Then immediately used to commute to work 60 miles round trip with 2 elevations 4240 (pass) and an estimated 1500 grade that is 2 miles from the house (uphill in the evening).
For the first 2 weeks no noticeable issues.

In week 3 the ambient temps reached 85 plus,( this is when I noticed starting to have a heating up issue) then Tuesday of 3rd week the temp gauge jumped up to ¾ stop for a moment then just to the edge of the Red zone as I was cresting the pass. I immediately slowed and pulled over got out and popped the hood to take a look. Noted that the coolant reservoir looked a bit darker than I was used to seeing, no sludge , oil or otherwise and the coolant was still clear orangish (Zerex 05, I am assuming from my previous gasser and color). It did have a bit of Pressure when I loosened the reservoir cap. Fans were operating. Went back to the cab and checked the temp gauge, it was already moving back to normal range (1 tick before the center line).
so I proceeded to use to commute, going from 65 to about 57/58 mph with cruise control. This helped as it would come up just short of ¾ on the temp gauge as I crested the pass and then cool back to normal. Nominal heat up ( middle between normal and ¾ ) going up the 1500 foot grade after heat up on the Pass all thru the week. NO coolant loss all week. Oil stayed the same -1 tick under the Max line. ( I never run all the way to “full”).
During week 3 I also noticed a moderate Lurching that I was attributing to the Transmission (given the long drive back, despite that the po had all fluids serviced, he liked to take it offroad).
I proceed to monitor the Trans fluid as well, volume stayed the same but had what I believed to be a reasonable burnt smell (not bad , just slight). This prompted me to drop the trans fluid and Oil. I noted when doing trans fluid change that the filter was a 2 wheel drive type and not the 4x4 filter.
I replaced trans filter(s) and replaced with 6.5Qts this brought the trans fluid to just above full hot mark. Also upsized the Oil filter and put rotella t6 full syn 5-40 , now despite not ever running to Max , I did just get a bit too much in and the Oil is to the Max line when cold so not great. While doing this also used CRC sensor cleaner and cleaned the MAF and the MAP ( mine looked like the first pic posted in sams guide) sensors as I was getting a p0101 code.

Week 4
So Monday morning I make my way to the highway via the 4 miles half of which is the 1500 foot grade down hill.
I have a stop with slight uphill to enter hwy with little less than a quarter mile gap for on coming traffic. Point – need to get in the accelerator a little not a lot. Monday as I was doing this between 2nd gear and 3rd (I believe) I heard a nasty Knocking sound that seemed to be from the top of the engine, immediately let go of the accelerator and it stopped. Proceeded to accelerate gently and no sound returned, ran fine did not notice any difference in feel of the vehicle.
It knocked exactly as before on Wed. afternoon while running in normal temp range, before reaching the pass. ( 10 minutes after start up).
The usual heat up behavior in the afternoons, although slightly worse as the Ambient temps now are averaging High 90 +.
Friday 8.5.16
Running at normal operating temp 30 min after startup of the evening commute.
First slight uphill before Pass and the Knocking just hit, backed out of accelerator as before, let vehicle momentum roll for 2 seconds or so and attempted to accelerate and knocking continued.
Limped off road into a pull out, sat for an hour tried again, same result, could only limp along at 20mph or so, limped off road again and towed home. (Thank you Brother for your resources).
After the 20 miles to the house the CRD has had a chance to cool off, proceed to start it no knocking
I am able to limp it off of the Trailer and park, let idle, while idling sounds as it always has.
So the knocking is only under acceleration at this point. I have read a number of posts here on Lost Jeeps
And the one piece of advice that always in my mind is “Stop driving it now” from Geordi in some one post or another.
Needless to say I could use some input to address this and get my awesome lil tractor back on the road.
As I have mentioned in my post I have read Sams newb guide and rebuild a couple little Hondas.
By no means am I intimidated, just lack accurate knowledge and experience ( a good lead).

Oh and by the way a good number of picks throughout the discussions don’t render, just place holders,
I have tried in IE and chrome any idea what is causing that , as they are a helpful reference for a diesel novice.
Any and all help is appreciated

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6302
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Only under acceleration and not at idle... First guess says you have either a dying fuel filter or possibly a rocker issue. With the heat and the conditions, you are dealing with hot fuel (engines don't like that much) and possibly vapor lock or even air in the fuel. This is also supported by the noise only appearing under load and when warmed up.

I'd start by unplugging the fuel heater (outboard plug or the one on the right when you look at it from the front) and see first if it is wet with fuel (if it isn't a big blue plug of the second generation design) and if so - that is a BIG place for air leaks. If it is leaking / wet / burned there, spray it out with brake cleaner and then fill the entire socket with some flavor of RTV and forget about it. You don't need a fuel heater.

Next is the filter itself - easy to replace, and cheap insurance. Pre-fill it with Power Service silver bottle, so you have a fully wet filter to install.

Third is the fuel line quick connect back by the tank. A favored method of mine to eliminate the air leak there, is to cut the hose on both sides of the connector and slide some 5/16" fuel-rated hose over the plastic line and secure it with two hose clamps on each side. All you are doing is replacing the quick connector with the rubber hose, this ends the air leak.

I'm glad my advice has been helpful. You are also very close by to Nick (mountainman) and he may be able to offer more assistance if this does not clear up the problem.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4962
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Can you better describe this knocking?
At what rpm does it happen?
If it were a mechnical problem, it would be knocking all the time.
Maybe its the fuel system?

If your temp gauge was above the halfway mark and you opened the cap and there was only a little pressure, you were not overheating. But you were still running too hot and I suspect your temp gauge is mis-calibrated.
You may want to consider replacing your thermostat.
Also, search the forum for upgraded fan and clutch replacments. The stock fan clutch is no good for driving through mountains in the summer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Geordi and Flash7210

Thank you very much, what you have shared sounds right on the money as the FF is due at 140 and I am at 133 so between that
and other fuel related potentials , along with Flash7210's comment about not all the time "mechanical"
I will have a post this weekend to relay the results,
and Fan clutch is in the works....$$ as always getting in the way
Thanks Guys

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
I am looking to change the fuel filter this weekend thanks to input from Geordi and flash7210
as well as the ehm, additionally making the correct adjustments to CCV
does any know of step by step for these maintenance / Modifications
would need that as the visuals (pics) in the discussions don't display/render for me
tried IE and Chrome...not Firefox yet

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 2:27 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Milford, IL
It is the opinion on some on here that the ehm is bad for our motors. It messes with the crankcase pressure and can freeze up during the winter and blow out the rear main seal

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:18 am
Posts: 174
Location: BILOXI MS
I have been running the EHM for about 100k all good but live in the HOT south.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Big Thanks guys! really appreciate your input.
I have read the additional instructions link in the noob page (thanks again Sam).
i am aware of the draw backs to this Mod. I think i will route mine semi close to exhaust to see it that is a possible solution.
right now in 90 + degree weather so not to worried about mod, crank case monitoring thou does concern me.
bigger need at the moment is step by step for replacing the Fuel Filter , as i have not done it once.
so want to do it right , no mistakes,

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Ok update after Fuel Filter change, ORM and EHM mods completed.
Started cold and sounded as it did when i removed from trailer cold. "Normal idle" but with slight out of rhythm sound/feel
Fuel Filter removed/replaced. filled filter with power service diesel Kleen, bled til only fluid came out of bleeder. this was done twice plugged the fuel heater connection port with gasket seal.
unplugged the MAF.
Removed the ccv hose, blocked off and zip tied to coolant reservoir, then routed 4' hose from the CCV down to
undercarriage.
Started , made same sound at idle as in the morning when cold, then as temp began to move up gently raise the rpms.
the sound and rhythm seemed for a moment to smooth out, then i gave it more fuel to about 2000 rpm, and saw about 3x3 foot plum of White smoke , this was done 2 times after the 3rd time the white smoke was not as evident from the cab, and the idle developed a hammering up at the timing cover area -front of the head (?).

I have video with audio, but don't know how to go about uploading to Lost Jeep site

Thanks for the assist everyone

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 2:27 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Milford, IL
How many miles are on the jeep. White smoke may indicate a problem with an injector. But the hammering concerns me as being a rocker issue but doesn't make sense the noise isn't constant throughout all rpms

_________________
2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 805
Location: markham, ontario
how is the coolant level ? hope it didn't blow head gasket ? white smoke , does it smell like burning antifreeze at tail pipe ?


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6302
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Got Dropbox?

If not, use this link and we both get extra space free. https://db.tt/QGC2eH5G
The service is free and awesome, it gives you a "public" folder that you can put files into and then copy the public link (right click menu) and paste that link online. This works for images too, and is super fast and easy to use.

I'm concerned about your description of the noise and scenario... That is starting to sound more like either a really blown head gasket and rocker, or possibly a valve failure that has managed to nick a water jacket but hasn't yet jammed the motor.

Thankfully the second option is exceedingly improbable. Everyone that has dropped a valve has had their motor refuse to run again until the problem was confirmed. Rockers can make uneven noises, but don't usually involve white smoke. Something funny going on here.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Ok video of knocking is linked, hope this works out.
Geordi,
Thanks again for the direction. i do have G+ account didn't think to use that.
so just created links from Dropbox.

Vid 1 is where i am starting from.
Right after FF and Mods engine cold only got the higher faster pitched knock. (clacking from top)
half way to normal operation temp, revs and that is when the moderate white smoke, i spoke of.

No exhaust did not smell like coolant at that moment, but not like diesel either, however just put in a full filter of Power Service.
so once it warmed up i revved it a little more as in Vid2,
suddenly started Knocking prominently from front of Head.
coolant seemed about the same, definitely not lower. shut it down.
Later after letting it get back to cold went and started again, no smoke vid 4.
Today i noted that the fuel pressure does not hold.
Bled until just fluid, let sit hour or so later, double checked pressure by bleeder and nothing but air.
pressurized again pump until fairly stif to push.
again hour or so later simply pushed on the pressure pump and it felt as if there was not pressure at all
had to pump 23 times or so to get it very firm.

vid1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lyqfsbrralnot ... 1.mp4?dl=0
Vid2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0568g9x7dogt ... 2.mp4?dl=0
vid3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7r4xstwljz1t ... 3.mp4?dl=0
vid 4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryw3j4z3ftaqr ... 4.mp4?dl=0
timing change sticker
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttrul6bg2xlkc ... e.jpg?dl=0

please let me know if the links to video in Dropbox do not work, i will try another solution.

As always any and all input is greatly appreciated.

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 805
Location: markham, ontario
unfortunately we were hoping it was the fuel system but now sounds more like a bottom end issue wondering if previous owner suspected it, thats probably why he sold it


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Yeah, I think you need to talk to Nick and see what he might want to do - I'm thinking that it is a bottom end problem, sadly. The previous owner probably didn't use the right oil, and one of the bearings has gone away. What you are doing right now is chewing on the crankshaft journal, b/c the bearing is gone.

You still can pull the top of the engine apart, but I think in all likelihood that the block needs to come out so the oil pan can come off.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:37 am 
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Location: Oxford, Connecticut
Swap injector and see if the noise is altered.

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2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
rankom Geordi and racertracer
Thank you for the input
So I take it the links worked ok?
Ok so engine Pull, and Geordi not sure I understand who you are referring to - Nick
I welcome his input as well.
additionally any handy links around for this task?
I have downloaded the service and parts .PDFs thank you Sam.
as to the Fuel not maintaining pressure you think bad Injector ? think I will test that theory after replacing the bearings
I hope (?!?!?!)

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Mountainman, hello

if you are monitoring , I would appreciate you chiming in on this issue.
Should I immediately pull and replace lower bearings, or chase what appears to be a fuel supply issue,
Don't want to ruin the engine in the process of trying to understand what specifically is wrong.

Thanks to All as usual

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Merrimac, MA
BWHsCRDs not sure where you are located but i am currently in the process of rebuilding mine from the bottom up so if you end up going that route ill gladly share some of my experiences. Hopefully you can figure it out without pulling it.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Clacking/ knocking under acceleration
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Boise ID area
Jsamps1345 thanks for the offer,
I always appreciate not having to "reinvent the wheel" when possible.

_________________
--------------------

Brian H
Boise
2005 CRD Limited - Mods EGR eliminated, Carter intank lift pump, GM Fan w/hd clutch....looking forward to more.

Sad as it is, pain has always been the best teacher.


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