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59k miles blowing blue smoke
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85188		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  biggreenjeep [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  59k miles blowing blue smoke
so I recently purchased an 05 crd with 59k miles after a fair amount of researching and a decent understanding of the known issues of these things. I thought I was getting myself into a decent little buggy...I was wrong. I put 600 miles on her in 3 weeks and then on the way home from the store Saturday she started bellowing blue smoke that smells like fuel. I could hear the turbo spooling up but as I have not yet installed a boost gauge I could not tell if I was actually building boost or not. I had a loss of power so I figured I was not building any boost and started looking for boost leaks. I eliminated the cac lines and the intercooler. checked for vacuum at the waste gage actuator and it was also good. checked for blockages in the air intake and nothing was found.
I called over a friend who also owns a crd (he talked me into getting this one) and we started doing side by side comparisons and doing some google wrenching. one thing we noticed right off the bat was a difference in sound. while his keeps that diesel rattle in the valve train up through the rev range mine clears up and sounds like a gasser motor after about 1300 revs. im a pretty capable mechanic and know a gasoline engine inside and out but this is my first experience with diesel. I was hoping to learn more about them but not a such a steep learing curve. after trying to read up on my symptoms the best answer we could come up with is that ive got a rocker arm bent/broken and its not letting a valve close there for I am dumping fuel into the exhaust and with the valve open I have nothing to build boost against in atleast one of the cylinders.
Are we crazy or does this seem like a reasonable explanation for my issues? recap: blue smoke that smells of unburnt fuel, loss of power whenever you should be building boost, and quieter than normal valve train. I knew about the weakness of the rocker arms due to Chryslers wise choice of using 0w40 oil in these things and though maybe I got one with few enough miles to avoid that issue and use a thicker oil but I guess not. contacted my local Chrysler garage and im looking at about 800 in parts alone and I haven't heard back yet for a quote on labor charge. I feel more than capable to change rockers as I have done it on gassers but I simply don't have the time to mess with it right now as its my daily driver and im now driving my yj on 35's 30 miles to work every day. not exactly an ideal situation and also I don't want to dive in and that not be the issue.
I contacted the dealer I had purchased this vehicle from here in pa and he said "I wont leave you hanging" so well see what that means. I may be setting a record for ramming a vehicle up a human rectum if he doesn't stand behind this issue considering its been 2 weeks and 600 miles and ive got a major issue leaving it useless.
thanks for any input or experience with issues like this and sorry for the long winded post but im kind of stuck in a rough spot and looking for information on a rare vehicle.

nic from pa
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
You should seriously consider replacing the timing belt.
At this point, its about age not mileage.
Wouldn't hurt to change the water pump either.

While you've got the front part of the motor removed, pull the injectors and remove the valve cover/intake manifold. Then you will be able to check the rockers.
While you have that off, replace the factory ceramic glow plugs with metal tipped ones that wont break.
And if your budget allows for it, install ARP head studs.

You should also seriously consider deleting or blocking the EGR valve.
And go to the CRD-tech section and read about the DIY tunes. These will help with the EGR deletion.

Blue smoke out the exhaust is typically burning oil.
If you have low boost and oil in the exhaust you probably have a bad turbo.
Remove the turbo inlet hose, stick your fingers in there and try to wiggle the turbo shaft. Excessive play = bad turbo.

Black smoke = not enough air.
Which could be a bad turbo, boost leak, bad EGR valve, or bent/broken rocker arms.
White smoke = coolant in the exhaust.
This would normally require pulling the head but could also be a EGR cooler leak.

The fuel system is known for sucking air. Installing the updated fuel filter assembly will help prevent that. Adding a lift pump is also a good method for preventing air-in-fuel.

You should also consider replacing the engine thermostat.
I'm only gonna recommend using a Mopar replacement thermostat (NOT Crown) but there are other options.

You should consider doing all the work yourself. Most chrysler shops do not have the knowledge to work on this motor. Unless they spend the time to read through this forum but thats not likely to happen.
Other than the fuel system and lack of spark plugs, this engine isnt much different from a gasser. But its still a strange motor compared to most diesel engines.
Author:  biggreenjeep [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
ya I had planned on changing the timing belt and I had already disabled the egr. was also planning on doing a diy tune but was waiting for my boost and egt gauge to show up in the mail...the egt showed up while I was sitting there trying to diagnose this problem. like I had said before. I don't have time to piss with this repair but I wanted to have a good idea of where it is head when I take it to a garage to have them head in the right direction instead of them chasing the wrong direction and wasting my time and money. im definitely sending unburnt fuel thru the exhaust at a high level and its not holding boost to burn said fuel. I've eliminated the lines and intercooler. waste gate has vacuum to it but that doesn't necessarily mean its working properly. with the valve train sounding so different between the two I really think its got to be something to do with that but ive only been able to put it up against one other crd for the comparison. anyone got a video of theirs running thru the rev range at neutral?????
Author:  joe_ [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
biggreenjeep wrote:
contacted my local Chrysler garage and im looking at about 800 in parts alone and I haven't heard back yet for a quote on labor charge. I feel more than capable to change rockers as I have done it on gassers but I simply don't have the time to mess with it right now as its my daily driver and im now driving my yj on 35's 30 miles to work every day. not exactly an ideal situation and also I don't want to dive in and that not be the issue.

I understand if you don't have the time to mess around with it, but just so you're aware, rocker arms are available from idparts.com for $30 each or $370 for a set of 16. If one or more is broken, I'd recommend replacing all 16.

http://www.idparts.com/rocker-arm-lifte ... -3064.html
http://www.idparts.com/rocker-arm-lifte ... -3065.html
Author:  geordi [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
Can you send me the video you have of it idling? I'm the traveling mechanic for these, and wouldn't trust a dealership to correctly diagnose which way the sun will rise tomorrow (or if) b/c they are really that useless.

For a complete rocker job with all the suggested mods (studs, glow plugs, EGR delete, timing kit with water pump, and an engine tune) I charge $3600... But that is DONE. All labor and parts.

The labor book value for the rocker arms is 18 hours, so a minimum of $1800, but at typical dealer rates more like $2200 and that will NOT include any other mods or upgrades, and also NOT include the timing belt work. They will tack on another 7 hours of labor for that even though 99% of the labor is duplicated.

I've seen it before, dealerships will take the engine completely apart and THEN they will tell you "they found something" that translates to a total bill of about $5000... With only a couple things actually replaced - if they manage to get it done right.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
no offense Nic - but these are not good vehicles if you have to take it to a mechanic

Jeep gave the dealership mechanics a 45 min video - 11-12 years ago and then only sold one/two per dealership

they have no experience actually working on them

private shops aren't much better

everyone is perfectly willing to have you spend $100/hour + parts - while they learn.

couple of folks on LOST are your best bet

Geordi's willing to travel
Author:  jeeplibertycrd [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Stop running it
Check oil level post results. Drain oil then get 6.4 quarts Mobil one and correct filter for CRD libertys. I hope you can do some work on Jeep. Unplug MAP at filter box, check boost sensor and clean it with either CRC electrical cleaner or I used CRC throttle body cleaner for fuel injection teflon safe. Mine is friggen rocket ship right now
Author:  biggreenjeep [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
I can post a video of it running tomorrow. I work out of town during the week and cant get to it. I understand that the Chrysler garage may not be the best choice for it. I have a trusted friend who is a very skilled diesel mechanic that it will likely go to. I was mainly looking for another way to diagnose it and be sure in my diagnosis before I take it out to him so I know what im getting into. one of you guys pm'd me a good way to check for the rocker arms, thanks. I am 99% sure that is my problem and I will be checking when I get home tomorrow. my main gripe with all this is that I purchased this 3 weeks ago and have put less than 600 miles on it before it happened. I am fighting with the dealer now to have him cover the cost. I am more than capable of doing the repair myself but with my job and all my other project vehicles I don't have time. I bought this jeep to be a reliable daily driver that I can jump in and go. bummer that it doo doo the bed 2 weeks in but so far I believe it is a completely fixable problem. I do love the little thing and how it drives just hoping I get to drive it more now.
Author:  olypopper [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
" I was mainly looking for another way to diagnose it and be sure in my diagnosis before I take it out to him so I know what im getting into"

You absolutely need to perform a compression check followed up with a leak down test.
Author:  biggreenjeep [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
Took it to the chrysler garage and they said is the egr valve. Loos like ill be doing the delete kit asap.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
Blue smoke is burning oil - that would not be from the EGR. A stuck EGR would cause low boost (boost leak) and black smoke.

You will also need an engine tune to clear the idiot light after deleting the EGR.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
biggreenjeep wrote:
Took it to the chrysler garage and they said is the egr valve. Loos like ill be doing the delete kit asap.

Simple cheap test to eliminate EGR valve stuck open is to put a blank in the EGR exhaust feed tube where it bolts to the EGR valve/cooler. Remove two bolts, slip a blank in and tighten bolts back up! You can run like this till you get the Weeks elbow kit.... :wink:
You can make the blank out of a small piece of sheet metal or a metal can using two basic tools; tin snips and a drill... Can be installed in less than 30 minutes, or 15 if you are good? :lol:
It will not trip any DTC's either!

Image
Author:  geordi [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
Yes it will trip the check engine light, the nanny system in the computer is looking for a drop in airflow across the Mass Airflow Sensor that corresponds to the opening of the EGR. If it doesn't see this, it will command the FCV to close to try and increase the flow from the EGR. If that doesn't work, then it will set the CEL for "EGR insufficient flow" and stop trying.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
geordi wrote:
Yes it will trip the check engine light, the nanny system in the computer is looking for a drop in airflow across the Mass Airflow Sensor that corresponds to the opening of the EGR. If it doesn't see this, it will command the FCV to close to try and increase the flow from the EGR. If that doesn't work, then it will set the CEL for "EGR insufficient flow" and stop trying.

geordi not doubting your statement , but it is very strange best I remember that when I blocked my EGR off with a plate back in 2013 and removed the FCV butterfly as well and I never received any DTCs and I drove it like this for over six months till the Weeks elbow kit became available and I purchased one and installed it... :shock:
Of course my recollection could always be off a little being it was three years ago.... :ROTFL:
Author:  geordi [ Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
Unless your CRD had a GDE tune already and had one of the early ones that had the codes deleted... Are you sure your CEL light works?

You absolutely would have gotten the light within just a few drive cycles, this thing is programmed to use the EGR all the time.
Author:  lacabrera [ Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 59k miles blowing blue smoke
WWDiesel wrote:
geordi wrote:
Yes it will trip the check engine light, the nanny system in the computer is looking for a drop in airflow across the Mass Airflow Sensor that corresponds to the opening of the EGR. If it doesn't see this, it will command the FCV to close to try and increase the flow from the EGR. If that doesn't work, then it will set the CEL for "EGR insufficient flow" and stop trying.

geordi not doubting your statement , but it is very strange best I remember that when I blocked my EGR off with a plate back in 2013 and removed the FCV butterfly as well and I never received any DTCs and I drove it like this for over six months till the Weeks elbow kit became available and I purchased one and installed it... :shock:
Of course my recollection could always be off a little being it was three years ago.... :ROTFL:


x2 capping the EGR will not cause a CEL. disconnecting the electrical socket from it will. The ECU checks for its connection only hence why its easy to fool it with a resistor. However the newer CRD has a flow through EGR sensor that will detect a stuck closed or capped EGR
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