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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:32 am 
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mass-hole wrote:
Has anyone noticed that there was still some rotational play in the gates locking pins for the cams or was the just me?


Yup. Seems like retiming these engines is an italian "good 'nuff" aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:33 am 
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mass-hole wrote:
I wanna know why they wouldnt key the cam gears to the slots in the cam shafts. Seems like a silly oversight. that would make it so all you had to do was align the gears with your marks you made prior to disassembly instead of having to worry about the cams having moved and the cam gears just bolting on at any angle.

I read somewhere VM did this so when you tension the cam belt with the cam gears bolts loose and the crankshaft pinned, it allows the cam gears to move independently and rotate while the cams remain stationary... But I also agree with you, I have done hundreds of timing belt jobs and the cam gears were always keyed or dowel pinned to the cam... Seems like it would have been much similar to just keyed them to each other (cam & gear). There are zillions of dual overhead cam vehicles in service today all over the world with the cam gears keyed or doweled to the cam!!!
mass-hole wrote:
Has anyone noticed that there was still some rotational play in the gates locking pins for the cams or was the just me?

Yes I noticed the slight movement allowed even with the cam indexing pins in place when I performed my timing belt job. I thought then and still feel it is not a real accurate method of timing an engine. Guess it is like Sir Sam said; "Close enough is good enough method" :shock:

Gosh, back in my racing days, we would use dial indicators and degree wheels to set up crankshaft to cam timing to ensure accuracy. And believe me, a few degrees one way or the other (+or-) could make a real difference on engine power output!!! They even make offset keyways up to +/- 3 degrees for this purpose... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:46 am 
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Quote:
Gosh, back in my racing days, we would use dial indicators and degree wheels to set up crankshaft to cam timing to ensure accuracy. And believe me, a few degrees one way or the other (+or-) could make a real difference on engine power output!!! They even make offset keyways up to +/- 3 degrees for this purpose... :roll:


See, that's why did the sprockets like that :idea:

So what do you think?
Advance the exhaust cam 3 deg while keeping the intake straight up?
That might get the turbo spooled up quicker :twisted:

edit:
This makes for an interesting thought experiment because we dont know the cam profiles and we cant just remove the valve cover to see exactly when the cams begin to open the valves in relation to the crankshaft. So... :?:

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:01 pm 
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I just wanted to thank everyone for their help. Issue is resolved.

I removed the cam pins and turned the crank to 12,3,6,9 with the notch at 3. Crank pin threaded right in. So I realigned the cams and inserted the pins, wrapped a few layers of paper towel around a paint stick and used it to shim the belt at the fuel pump and water pump pulleys. All I had to do was loosen the tensioner, turn the crank 1 tooth counter closkwise and reset the tensioner. Hand turned the crank to verify the timing lined back up proper to 90TDC and all is well. She fired up normally and purred like the little tractor I fell in love with in 2005.

I learned a lot so thanks to you all.

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:17 pm 
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I suppose I spoke too soon. Once it cranked and ran fine, I put it all back together. Turned the key and 'click', then nothing. Blew the 40 amp starter fuse. Swapped with the blower fuse and it blew the fuse with no click or anything. The only thing I touched electrical was the battery positive. Makes no sense. Getting dark now so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to even take a look. Strange.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:14 am 
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Can you turn it over by hand?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:42 am 
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I can turn it over by hand. I went out this morning and removed the fan and shroud and she turned over just fine. Started ohming the relay and fuse and all were fine (outside of the blown fuse I replaced). When I got to the starter, I noticed the aluminum? wrap around the starter wires was laying on the positive to the solenoid. Slight burn mark. Since I did the EGR mixing valve delete, I suppose I lost support for that. Once I secured that and double checked all voltages across the starter she fired right up. I started/stopped 3 times and then put the fan/shroud back on and went for a drive. Got 1/4 mile and heard a pop. Turns out I forgot to tighten the intake hose on the inter cooler and it blew it off.

Went for a short drive to get everything up to temp and all seems fine.

Thanks again everyone.

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:00 pm 
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minuteman wrote:
I can turn it over by hand. I went out this morning and removed the fan and shroud and she turned over just fine. Started ohming the relay and fuse and all were fine (outside of the blown fuse I replaced). When I got to the starter, I noticed the aluminum? wrap around the starter wires was laying on the positive to the solenoid. Slight burn mark. Since I did the EGR mixing valve delete, I suppose I lost support for that. Once I secured that and double checked all voltages across the starter she fired right up. I started/stopped 3 times and then put the fan/shroud back on and went for a drive. Got 1/4 mile and heard a pop. Turns out I forgot to tighten the intake hose on the inter cooler and it blew it off.

Went for a short drive to get everything up to temp and all seems fine.

Thanks again everyone.

Jason

Glad you found the problem and it turned out to be something simple!!! :-)r

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Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
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IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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