FFD Fan Question

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:14 pm

I know folks running the FFD fans have had good luck. My question is how far does the shroud that comes with the ebay kit set the fan back from the radiator core(not the end tanks since they stick back 3/4" off the core)? I build my own shroud/fan assembly hoping it would cure my overheating issues but no luck.

I brought it into a shop to see if they could diagnose a clogged radiator/bad water pump as the culprit since I've done basically everything else but instead they just told me the system looks fine and my fan shroud was the issue. I have been overheating since June and have tried a new mechanical clutch with not much change. Its was still overheating so I was thinking fan flow was too low at low RPM. Now its 55-60 degrees out and is getting worse.

dh100m · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:24 pm

I suspect your thermostat I run 2-10" electric fans with home made shroud they never come on unless I am towing
hope this helps

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:25 pm

ok i know you are experienced on this and no need to take it to a shop for diagnoses , like suggested check thermostat , check if any bubbles in surge tank (HEAD GASKET) or if all check out ok , and still overheats , some times water pump impeller shaft can be slipping so after market pumps , after market glow plugs , after market intake and exhaust valves , I DONT TRUST THEM . anyway good luck don't drive it with overheat condition.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:32 pm

rankom wrote:

ok i know you are experienced on this and no need to take it to a shop for diagnoses , like suggested check thermostat , check if any bubbles in surge tank (HEAD GASKET) or if all check out ok , and still overheats , some times water pump impeller shaft can be slipping so after market pumps , after market glow plugs , after market intake and exhaust valves , I DONT TRUST THEM . anyway good luck don't drive it with overheat condition.

Thermostats been swapped(the other one was fine, tested it after I took it out), fan clutch was swapped to a hayden a month ago, I had the coolant flushed 1.5 months ago to no avail, checked for collapsing radiator hoses, etc etc.

I literally think it can only be a plugged radiator, bad water pump or bad HG at this point. I just switched to the electric fan with a homemade shroud 2 days ago. The shop is like its you fan. Shop told me they would check flow when I dropped it off but said they dont have that capability after they looked at it :furious:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:33 pm

I suspect radiator.
By all means, change your thermostat but there's really no reason to suspect you thermostat is the problem.

The outlet from the radiator is halfway up the drivers side tank. That leaves lots off opportunity for solids to settle at the bottom and not get flushed through.
Unfortunately, the only way to verify that is by removing the side tank.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:35 pm

Old thread.
Shows plugged bottom tubes of radiator.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=58582

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:37 pm

flash7210 wrote:

I suspect radiator.
By all means, change your thermostat but there's really no reason to suspect you thermostat is the problem.

The outlet from the radiator is halfway up the drivers side tank. That leaves lots off opportunity for solids to settle at the bottom and not get flushed through.
Unfortunately, the only way to verify that is by removing the side tank.

See this is what I was thinking too. I really seems like a flow issue to me because it will heat up, and then take FOREVER to cool back down, even with the electric fan running full speed on the back of the radiator.

The jeep was sitting in the parking lot idling last night and so I decided to touch the bottom and top of the radiator. The top burnt me almost immediately but I could hold my hand on the bottom. Later, I climbed a hill and it started to overheat so I pulled to the side of the road and both the top and bottom were hot now.

Just an FYI, my electric fan is hooked up to the OEM A/C fan wiring, so it triggers low at 96.5C and high at 98C. I have gotten as high as 107C.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:42 pm

So does anyone know how far the Ebay shroud for the FFD fan puts the fan off the back of the radiator?

Mine is currently an inch away from the core. It has good suction all over the radiator. even in the corners of the radiator(farthest from the fan) it was pulling good air as tested by releasing a piece of paper from the CAC(2-3" in front of the radiator) and it getting sucked up against the radiator and held there.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:50 pm

Quote:

Just an FYI, my electric fan is hooked up to the OEM A/C fan wiring, so it triggers low at 96.5C and high at 98C. I have gotten as high as 107C.

Ugh. You and your silly metric system. Make me have look up the conversion...
So, 225 F.

Yes, its hot. But technically not too hot.
Ive seen that temp too. Turning the AC off helped bring it back down. My only fan is the factory electric pusher.
Your fan is bigger than mine and should pull more air. So airflow should not be the issue.
Youre at a higher altitude and you drive up steep inclines, but your ambient temps are cooler.
Hmmm...

You know what this forum really needs?
A how-to install a aftermaket universal aluminum radiator and intercooler. Hint, hint :wink:

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:16 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

Just an FYI, my electric fan is hooked up to the OEM A/C fan wiring, so it triggers low at 96.5C and high at 98C. I have gotten as high as 107C.

Ugh. You and your silly metric system. Make me have look up the conversion...
So, 225 F.

Yes, its hot. But technically not too hot.
Ive seen that temp too. Turning the AC off helped bring it back down. My only fan is the factory electric pusher.
Your fan is bigger than mine and should pull more air. So airflow should not be the issue.
Youre at a higher altitude and you drive up steep inclines, but your ambient temps are cooler.
Hmmm...

You know what this forum really needs?
A how-to install a aftermaket universal aluminum radiator and intercooler. Hint, hint :wink:

Were both working on that hint, hint lol

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:38 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

Just an FYI, my electric fan is hooked up to the OEM A/C fan wiring, so it triggers low at 96.5C and high at 98C. I have gotten as high as 107C.

Ugh. You and your silly metric system. Make me have look up the conversion...
So, 225 F.

Yes, its hot. But technically not too hot.
Ive seen that temp too. Turning the AC off helped bring it back down. My only fan is the factory electric pusher.
Your fan is bigger than mine and should pull more air. So airflow should not be the issue.
Youre at a higher altitude and you drive up steep inclines, but your ambient temps are cooler.
Hmmm...

You know what this forum really needs?
A how-to install a aftermaket universal aluminum radiator and intercooler. Hint, hint :wink:

Yeah sorry, everything in the tune is Kelvin/Celsius, mbar, and grams so that's how i think now.

I have been looking into a new CAC. Unfortunately, I blew out the suspension on my mountain bike downhilling a few weeks back and it wasnt worth fixing/replacing, so I bought a new bike and used up my Jeep budget for the rest of the year. I know that Bshooter put a new radiator in his ridiculous SAS'd monster liberty. There is a link to the one he used in his build thread.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am

I sent Bshooter an email about it and he replied with some pics and a little info about the install.
The intercooler was just one found on ebay. The radiator is a griffin double pass with both inlet and outlet on the passenger side. Lots of custom made brackets, etc..

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:06 am

flash7210 wrote:

I sent Bshooter an email about it and he replied with some pics and a little info about the install.
The intercooler was just one found on ebay. The radiator is a griffin double pass with both inlet and outlet on the passenger side. Lots of custom made brackets, etc..

Yeah I dont know how we would get around that unless there is some other OE radiator thats thicker and just happens to have the same mounts as ours. This guy at the shop I brought it into the other day seem pretty knowledgeble on these motors and said some company in Australia was making a radiator for it that was 1" thicker or something. No luck finding it but the fact that he threw out australia made me think at knew at least a little bit about what he was saying.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:56 pm

mass-hole wrote:

Yeah I dont know how we would get around that unless there is some other OE radiator thats thicker and just happens to have the same mounts as ours..

You could always contact a custom radiator builder like one of these below to custom build one for the Jeep CRD! :wink:

Link:>C, G, & J Inc Heat Transfer Experts< http://www.cgj.com/store/category/jeep-radiators/ They list a lot of Jeep radiators!!!!
Link:> Ron Davis Racing Products< http://www.rondavisradiators.com/contact.htm

ps; there are several more custom builders listed, just Google "custom built radiators for jeeps"... :google:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:28 pm

Just got off the phone with this company I have used before:
Built Tough Radiators (BTR) >http://btr-radiator.com/PartsListing.aspx
A few years back, he built me an all metal 4 flue radiator for my Dodge Cummins diesel! It is a very well built all metal unit and made a huge difference in temperatures while towing a 10k+ camper up those long inclines in the mountains! :-)r

He builds all kinds of HD Jeep radiators (see web site) used all over the world and told me if I would send him some pictures of the radiator and all the dimensions, he would tell me if you could supply us with a HD unit for our Jeep CRDs...

So, if anyone has a stock radiator out, I need some pictures along with all dimensions, length, width, thickness, and core length & width to send to him...
PM me if you can provide!
Kind of hard to measure accurately in a vehicle but I may have to if no one can supply....

thanks,

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:24 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Just got off the phone with this company I have used before:
Built Tough Radiators (BTR) >http://btr-radiator.com/PartsListing.aspx
A few years back, he built me an all metal 4 flue radiator for my Dodge Cummins diesel! It is a very well built all metal unit and made a huge difference in temperatures while towing a 10k+ camper up those long inclines in the mountains! :-)r

He builds all kinds of HD Jeep radiators (see web site) used all over the world and told me if I would send him some pictures of the radiator and all the dimensions, he would tell me if you could supply us with a HD unit for our Jeep CRDs...

So, if anyone has a stock radiator out, I need some pictures along with all dimensions, length, width, thickness, and core length & width to send to him...
PM me if you can provide!
Kind of hard to measure accurately in a vehicle but I may have to if no one can supply....

thanks,

I just got back from a radiator shop down in SLC who narrowed it down a little by confirming that I dont have a head gasket leak, so I'm 90% sure its a clogged radiator. The other 10% is the water pump but he seemed the think it was flowing decently and the first shop i took it to saturday said the system had plenty of pressure which meant it was pumping fine.

Problem was they quoted me $500 to rod out the radiator(removing, rodding, reinstalling) so I left since i could buy a new radiator for less. I am flying for work this evening, but I think I may try to pop the end tanks on mine when I get back at the end of the week and see if I can do it myself and just buy a new one if it doesnt work. If so, I will get you dimensions for the mounts and everything. If they could make a radiator with a core thats as thick as our end tanks are currently, I bet it would make a massive difference in cooling. You would increase resonance time of the coolant and get a longer cooling air path to pick up more heat.

Another thing I would love to do is push the ac condenser back to the radiator and get the CAC out front, if they could include mounting points on the Radiator that would make that much easier.

I also think increasing the CAC core volume could make a difference. If you double the flow area of the CAC you double the time it takes for the air charge to travel through it, which means you are now dispersing the same heat over 2X the cooling air. This means that the air coming out of the back of the CAC will be cooler traveling into the radiator which is a Win-Win. Cooler IAT's and better radiator efficiency.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:12 pm

I got one end tank off the radiator and filled the other tank with water and flipped it. Water came through all of the passages pretty evenly so i guess the radiator was ok. I think i am gunna let it soak in citric acid overnight and flush it but im guessing it may have been the water pump.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:31 am

mass-hole wrote:

I got one end tank off the radiator and filled the other tank with water and flipped it. Water came through all of the passages pretty evenly so i guess the radiator was ok. I think i am gunna let it soak in citric acid overnight and flush it but im guessing it may have been the water pump.

Have you changed the water pump yet? If so, what did the impeller look like?

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:21 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

I got one end tank off the radiator and filled the other tank with water and flipped it. Water came through all of the passages pretty evenly so i guess the radiator was ok. I think i am gunna let it soak in citric acid overnight and flush it but im guessing it may have been the water pump.

Have you changed the water pump yet? If so, what did the impeller look like?

I did when i did the TB and it seemed to look great but i am no expert. I tried to spin the impeller on the shaft to see if it was slipping and couldnt get it to turn by hand.

Everything on the jeep looked pretty good when I pulled it and this is at 95,000 miles. The TB has a little wear, but nothing like you see on the pictures posted here. Rockers all seemed like new and the lifters were floating freely. Water pump looked really good. I was even extremely surprised at how little crap there was in my intake manifold and runners

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:46 pm

hmm, I have been running the 203F stat, and pulling heavy loads on long grades, and I can't even get the needle past 1/2 any more at nearly 200k on the bottom end.
The factory FFD shroud is maybe 1", if it's lucky, and it doesn't cover the entire radiator, so there's not even good draw when the fan is on. I'm sure it's just fine for people that don't drive big grades...

Did you compare your rockers to a new one? Maybe, just maybe you're not getting the heat out, but I know that the stock radiator is good for extreme conditions, if it's not clogged anyhow.

Dirty engine, 200k, 203F stat....hmm, oh, I know. It's probably your gear ratio/big tires in combination with AC, rockers, and maybe exhaust. You are running big tires, and if the AC is cranking also, and your rockers aren't opening the valves all of the way, then it's just adding up.

How well does your home-made shroud meet up to the edges of the radiator? I did the same thing, and with many hours of bending, my shroud meets the top and sides pretty tightly, but there's a big gap on the bottom that I was going to seal, but haven't needed to :rockon:

I also have my controller set to kick the electric fan on if the needle barely budges, but I don't think that makes enough difference to matter. Oh, yeah, you put the mech fan back on, so nevermind this paragraph :dizzy:

I will say that the mech fan is just adding even more load to the engine on the grades though.

Stock muffler also? I have mine strait piped after the Cat. Best mod ever, I don't even notice the sound unless over 75mph.

I ended up with a free set of BFG ATK02's stock size, and I put them on 1.5 spacers, and I'm loving it. Looks good, stable, and I keep my stock ratio for all of the heavy towing I do. Also keeps the load reasonable since I'm not hauling monster tires. More PSI for the ice also.

Finally, how fast are you driving the grades? If you're pushing 75mph with AC then that's a tremendous load with everything else. I can't budge my needle unloaded at any speed, but I don't even have an AC cooler or fan in front of the radiator, so the airflow is optimal. I drive the big grades in 4th gear at 60mph and 1800 rpm unloaded. Easy on the jeep and never hunts for a gear (with stock tires).

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