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Engine Knocking?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85340		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Jferg [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Engine Knocking?
Hello Everyone,

I am looking at potentially purchasing a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited. I really like the vehicle and it seems to drive just fine, but after doing a lot of research on this site and watching youtube videos of other CRD's running, I'm concerned that this vehicle has a bad knock indicating that something is seriously wrong with the engine. Therefore, I was hoping some of the people on this site with a lot of experience with these engines could listen to it and confirm whether or not this is the case. For some background on the vehicle, it has 110000 miles, GDE full torque eco tune done at 102k miles, the timing belt and all rockers also replaced at 102k, turbo and oil cooler replaced at 108k. I'm hoping the noise is normal diesel clatter or something minor, but I fear the worse. Here is the link to the video: [https://youtu.be/fZoVMAE6yU4]. Please let me know if you have trouble viewing it.

Thank you all for your time. I'm really hoping to join the CRD club, but if it has a bad valve(s) or cam then I'm probably going to have to pass on the vehicle.
Author:  rankom [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
I'm going to tell you , this jeepCRD is a very nice looking car , but the problem is the way its put together and dealers don't want to help anyone with this thing , so it is up to you if you need a toy to play yes bay all means get one . but if you need a every day car buy something inexpensive and just go on the road . that what i did with my 04VW jetta 5 speed in 6 years i just did regular maintenance , i put 250.000km on it with only one parts order from ID parts . OK now with this jeep in 3 years of ownership i put 30.000km and I'm still ordering from ID PARTS just to make it look good , you know christmas is coming soon so i want it to shine in my garage LOL
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
They are not for a vehicle for the majority of owners! They are a very unique vehicle that was unfortunately only sold for two years in this country. They are not good vehicles for the faint of heart person who cannot perform their own repairs, maintenance, modifications etc...
Most of us on this forum have a love hate relationship with the CRD Jeep as we love the power, torque, and great fuel mileage, but hate the quirky problems that arise from time to time with the various issues we are forced to deal with. :banghead:
If you want a vehicle that can be brought up to a superior level than when it was sold new and you do not mind spending many hours and monies modifying, turning wrenches, and installing upgraded parts, then the Jeep CRD could be a vehicle for you.
It certainly is a aficionados vehicle from the standpoint it is so very unique; there really is no other vehicle out there quite like it!
Once brought up to a superior level, it can be a fun, reliable, and economic vehicle to own and drive...
So, if you like to tinker on vehicles, can find a decent used one in good shape that has not been abused, buy it, and look to this forum for any information and / or help needed...many on here are willing and able to help :wink:
Author:  Drewd [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
If you buy a diesel Jeep, make sure you have a reliable backup vehicle unless you don't mind walking to work.

While mine stranded me only once, the amount of unscheduled maintenance took a lot of my spare time I had on days off away. I was fortunate that I could take my time repairing my KJ CRD because we had a spare car in the driveway.

If you by one, buy it as a novelty. If you aren't a good mechanic and rely on a dealership, you'll go broke.
Author:  geordi [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Jferg: Where is this CRD located, and how much do they want for it? It does sound like it needs work - that is not a normal CRD idle. For reference, here is what a CRD should sound like:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-After.mp4

Sorry that the video has a bit of wind noise in it, but that is one of my CRDs - and I have one for sale right now that has had *everything* already done to it. I am so confident in it, that I am just completing a 6000 mile road trip with it that I left on, with barely an hour or so of packing / transferring items from my normal road trip vehicle (VW TDI) that decided to pop the torque converter on me. So I limped home, and left with the Jeep instead.

My Jeep has 150k on the body and transmission, but the engine is newly built and has all new rockers, head gasket, glow plugs, intake elbow, the EGR is deleted both physically and with an engine tune, and the engine has been running perfectly. This adds up to about $5000 in extras with the labor that I put into it... And a bargain at $9500 because all you need to put into it is fuel.
Author:  Jferg [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Thank you all for your responses! If I do end up getting this vehicle, it will be my third vehicle so I will not be relying on it to be my daily driver. Basically, I had a '99 XJ for the last 10 years that I used as my hunting/beach/fishing vehicle and absolutely loved it as I never had a problem with it. Unfortunately, I was hit by an unlicensed and uninsured driver and the vehicle was totaled. I mentioned to one of my friends that I was looking for a similar vehicle to replace it with and he told me that he had a diesel liberty that he was looking to get rid of because he was tired of throwing money and parts at it (he was not aware of this excellent forum). I've always wanted a diesel vehicle and I've always been attracted to things that are different, and the Liberty CRD certainly meets that criteria. I don't mind and even enjoy doing basic maintenance such as changing fluids and filters or cleaning sensors. However, breaking down an engine to replace internal parts is something that is definitely over my head.

Geordi, the vehicle is located in Harlingen, TX and he said he would sell it to me for $5k. Like I said, it has had the timing belt and rockers replaced fairly recently and it seems to have plenty of power, but I've never driven one before so don't have anything to compare it to. It does blow a little more black smoke under hard acceleration than what I was expecting since it has the GDE tune, but I am thinking that is just because he removed the catalytic converter. Any ideas on what may be causing the bad idle?
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Either the EGR valve is stuck open or there is a problem with the turbo actuator/vacuum solenoids.
Author:  Jferg [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the GDE tune eliminate the EGR?
Author:  jws84_02 [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Jferg wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the GDE tune eliminate the EGR?



It eliminates the functionality of it. But doesn't magically fix a leak if there is one
Author:  Jferg [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
jws84_02 wrote:
Jferg wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the GDE tune eliminate the EGR?



It eliminates the functionality of it. But doesn't magically fix a leak if there is one



Gotcha. So if it is the EGR valve stuck open, will it hurt anything since it is not functioning, or will it eventually lead to problems?

I listened to the engine again today and the "knocking" is definitely more prominent on the driver's side of the engine. Not sure if that narrows anything down or not.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Jferg wrote:
jws84_02 wrote:
Jferg wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the GDE tune eliminate the EGR?

It eliminates the functionality of it. But doesn't magically fix a leak if there is one

Gotcha. So if it is the EGR valve stuck open, will it hurt anything since it is not functioning, or will it eventually lead to problems?
I listened to the engine again today and the "knocking" is definitely more prominent on the driver's side of the engine. Not sure if that narrows anything down or not.

If it is stuck in the open position, a lot of boost will be lost (and performance) and will flow back through the a stuck open EGR valve into the exhaust manifold... The EGR can be blocked off to prevent any leakage or totally removed with a Weeks elbow kit. No tune can totally eliminate any possibility of the EGR valve from leaking by, only by installing a block off plate in the EGR feed tube to the EGR valve or total removal of the EGR system (Weeks Kit) can guarantee 100% no leak by.... :wink:

A simple block off plate can be made from some thin metal using the following dimensions:
Link to thread:>http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576&hilit

Image
Author:  xhizzous [ Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
When the motor mounts go bad and have been going bad for awhile they do make some noise. It could be related to that. My 06 makes alot of noise at idle and has for about 15k miles. I have gone through everything I can think of and its been just fine. Motor mounts are what I have left that I have not touched.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
You will be amazed at the difference new motor mounts can make, I know I was, I kept hearing a noise at idle. I replaced the serpentine belt tensioner thinking it was bad and the noise was still there. It seemed to be worse with the AC on. So lastly I replaced both motor mounts and WOW what a difference! After removing the old ones, the drivers side mount would rattle internally when I shook it. Never would have believed that a motor mount could cause that kind of noise! :shock:
Idles smooth now and no noises anymore... :D
Author:  Jferg [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Quote:
If it is stuck in the open position, a lot of boost will be lost (and performance) and will flow back through the a stuck open EGR valve into the exhaust manifold... The EGR can be blocked off to prevent any leakage or totally removed with a Weeks elbow kit. No tune can totally eliminate any possibility of the EGR valve from leaking by, only by installing a block off plate in the EGR feed tube to the EGR valve or total removal of the EGR system (Weeks Kit) can guarantee 100% no leak by.... :wink:

A simple block off plate can be made from some thin metal using the following dimensions:
Link to thread:>http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576&hilit


Thanks! I'll definitely have to try blocking it off I end up purchasing the vehicle.

Quote:
When the motor mounts go bad and have been going bad for awhile they do make some noise. It could be related to that. My 06 makes alot of noise at idle and has for about 15k miles. I have gone through everything I can think of and its been just fine. Motor mounts are what I have left that I have not touched.


I too was thinking that the noise may be due to bad motor mounts as there are other vibrations you can here at idle while inside the cabin. I just wanted to make sure the noise was not something catastrophic happening with the motor, which from what I'm hearing so far no one seems too concerned that this is the case. The owner let me drive it for a few weeks before making my decision (nice guy) and so far after about 300 miles it hasn't sputtered, shuddered, or cut off. Just loud at idle and some black smoke under acceleration. The only other thing i've noticed is that the gas mileage so far is not as good as I hoped. With 75% of my driving highway, i'm only getting around 20mpg.
Author:  xhizzous [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Quote:
I too was thinking that the noise may be due to bad motor mounts as there are other vibrations you can here at idle while inside the cabin. I just wanted to make sure the noise was not something catastrophic happening with the motor, which from what I'm hearing so far no one seems too concerned that this is the case. The owner let me drive it for a few weeks before making my decision (nice guy) and so far after about 300 miles it hasn't sputtered, shuddered, or cut off. Just loud at idle and some black smoke under acceleration. The only other thing i've noticed is that the gas mileage so far is not as good as I hoped. With 75% of my driving highway, i'm only getting around 20mpg.



Generally speaking, if something catastrophic happens you will know right away, when something in these little diesels decides its time to go you will most definately find out pretty quickly. Only thing i can think of off the top of my head that might still allow the vehicle to operate semi normally is mabye a timing belt thats only 1 tooth out or something, it would run crappier than normal though it should not just idle noisy.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Jferg wrote:
Just loud at idle and some black smoke under acceleration. The only other thing i've noticed is that the gas mileage so far is not as good as I hoped. With 75% of my driving highway, i'm only getting around 20mpg.

A little black smoke on hard acceleration is normal, what concerns me if you are seeing black smoke every time you accelerate and getting real poor fuel mileage as well. Possibly you are loosing boost (EGR valve leaking by or a boost hose or CAC leaking) or timing is off slightly! Or could be a bad MAP sensor (reads boost pressure). :shock:
Author:  Jferg [ Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Quote:
A little black smoke on hard acceleration is normal, what concerns me if you are seeing black smoke every time you accelerate and getting real poor fuel mileage as well. Possibly you are loosing boost (EGR valve leaking by or a boost hose or CAC leaking) or timing is off slightly! Or could be a bad MAP sensor (reads boost pressure). :shock:
Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:31 pm



I spoke with the local diesel mechanic who has done most of the work to this jeep and he said that he already installed the block off plate for the egr, so I guess we can eliminate that. He also stated that he spent a lot of time researching and making sure he got the timing right after replacing the belt and rockers, so I think the timing is fine as well. That leaves a boost hose or CAC leaking.
I also went ahead and replaced the air filter, which was very dirty, and cleaned the map sensor the other day. Hopefully this will help get the fuel mileage closer to what it should be. As far as the smoking, it doesn't smoke at all under light acceleration and only slightly smokes under moderate acceleration. But if I floor it, there is definitely a good size cloud of smoke left behind.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Jferg wrote:
Quote:
A little black smoke on hard acceleration is normal, what concerns me if you are seeing black smoke every time you accelerate and getting real poor fuel mileage as well. Possibly you are loosing boost (EGR valve leaking by or a boost hose or CAC leaking) or timing is off slightly! Or could be a bad MAP sensor (reads boost pressure). :shock:
Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:31 pm

I spoke with the local diesel mechanic who has done most of the work to this jeep and he said that he already installed the block off plate for the egr, so I guess we can eliminate that. He also stated that he spent a lot of time researching and making sure he got the timing right after replacing the belt and rockers, so I think the timing is fine as well. That leaves a boost hose or CAC leaking.
I also went ahead and replaced the air filter, which was very dirty, and cleaned the map sensor the other day. Hopefully this will help get the fuel mileage closer to what it should be. As far as the smoking, it doesn't smoke at all under light acceleration and only slightly smokes under moderate acceleration. But if I floor it, there is definitely a good size cloud of smoke left behind.

Hopefully you will narrow down and find the root cause of the problem! :roll:
Author:  TKB4 [ Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
Sounds like you are on the right track. My money is on the intercooler hose now.
Author:  xhizzous [ Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine Knocking?
TKB4 wrote:
Sounds like you are on the right track. My money is on the intercooler hose now.



If you have to order a new set the ID parts ones are very nice.

I just bought a set when I robbed my garaged 05's and put them on my 06 because of a blown hose. They ship with new T-bolt clamps as well, and they're cheaper than the samcos.
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