Tires

fatweasel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:04 pm

Time for my 4th set of tire on the Jeep - 187,000 miles. Probably stay with a 235/75/16. Have been advised against an LT tire for ride reasons.

I am thinking of Hankook AT/M, Firestone Destination AT or Cooper ATW.

Cooper is pretty new and havent seen a lot of reviews for them.

Lots of winter driving here in Michigan and a little off-road.

Thoughts/recommendation appreciated.

car0430a · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:11 pm

For what it's worth I like my Cooper Discovery A/T3's. Great performance in the Wisconsin winters.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:43 pm

I have duratracs on both my f150 and jeep and they are animals in the snow. I came from blizzaks on the jeep so i couldnt comment there but on my truck it was a night and day difference in snow vs the stock tires. Places i needed 4x4 i can now drive through casually in 2wd. They are relatively quiet but my one complaint is that they have worn a bit weird on the jeep even though ive done 2 alignments and several rotations in the last year. On the f150 they have been flawless.

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dskater411 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:40 pm

I also have the Cooper Discovorer A/T3's, 10k miles on them currently.

Too early to comment on longevity, but very impressed with the price/performance ratio. They are quiet and grip well.

edit - if you wait for one of discounttiredirect.com's several a year type sales (im sure black friday will be the next one) you can find some pretty great prices. I got the coopers for like $270 shipped after a mail in rebate, then had em mounted at costco for $60.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:58 pm

I've been looking at Kenda Klever AT KR28 245 70R 16s as something a bit more targeted towards getting around muddy grass fields, and some sand dune action.
However...
Don't know how long it will last but right now Cooper has a promotion going and giving 50-70 dollars back after purchase of a set of 4, and includes the Cooper A/T 3's. I have to admit the price difference is making me waver a bit.

{edit}

Quote:

Have been advised against an LT tire for ride reasons.

Unless you carry a full capacity load of whatever and / or tow heavy things, that's good advice. Tires of a same size being LT or Not LT, The LT will have much heavier casing / sidewall. (IE 10ply vs 4 ply) The inflation pressures and load ratings will be somewhere around double. On a commuter vehicle it will ride like a buckboard wagon and rattle your fillings loose if you have em. They are why pickups ride nice when they are loaded down or towing, but ride like trucks when empty.

If you are into rock crawling and that kind of stuff, you may want them anyway, since they have much greater sidewall strength, and are much harder to puncture when aired down.

This kind of confusion is frequently reflected by ratings of people that have shopped online without knowing this. Particularly when you see people's (very low) ratings where they have put tires on a truck and say it can't tow for beans because it has "tread squirm". Usually, this is because they bought the cheapest tires they could find that had the same numbers that were on their vehicles tires without paying attention to the LT designation on the more expensive ones.

{next edit)
One more very good reason to stay away from the LT tires is weight. In any given model and size, an LT version of the tire will weight 15 to 20 pounds MORE. EACH. That's 15-20lbs each spring and shock have to control for every bump and dip in the road. It's also 60-80lbs MORE inertial rotating resistance all the way out at the end of the wheels, that has to be overcome, when you want to surprise the smart-ass kid in the next lane that keeps revving his lumpy old nova with open exhaust, while waiting for the green light.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I've been looking at Kenda Klever AT KR28 245 70R 16s as something a bit more targeted towards getting around muddy grass fields, and some sand dune action.

Do you happen to know if this Kenda is the same Kenda that makes mountain bike tires? The Klever came up in a search for another vehicle I own, and I wondered...

(Need tires on the Jeep, too, but mostly for highway work

)

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:55 pm

thesameguy wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I've been looking at Kenda Klever AT KR28 245 70R 16s as something a bit more targeted towards getting around muddy grass fields, and some sand dune action.

Do you happen to know if this Kenda is the same Kenda that makes mountain bike tires? The Klever came up in a search for another vehicle I own, and I wondered...

(Need tires on the Jeep, too, but mostly for highway work

)

It is certainly possible, but I don't know about Mtn Bike tires. I've been out of that scene for 25+ years, although I still have a carbon fiber Giant frame (Mtn Tech) with all Shimano XT gear.... in storage.... somewhere....

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:23 pm

Personally, I like LT tires on my liberty.
Don't notic any harsh ride.

I once ran with 215-85-16 commercial truck tires at 75psi. Yes, they were heavy but I got my best mpgs with those tires. But they were horrible on wet pavement and wore out too quickly.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:05 am

Well I finally broke down and went for the Cooper Discoverer A/T3s. It's a good example to illustrate the differences (different part #'s) found within a single Brand, model, and size specification.

All of these are Cooper Discoverer A/T3's in size 245 / 70R - 16
All of them currently have free nationwide shipping, as well as a $70 rebate on a cash visa card offer good through the end of this month.
The last 2 are the LT versions.

PN# 51751 Tread-wear=560 Traction=A Temperature=B Load Cap=2150lb @ Max Inflation=44psi Speed Rating=118mph Casing Sidewall=4ply 10" infl. width Weight=35lbs 55000 mile Tread-wear protection. 29" diameter (this is the one that I bought)

PN# 90000002686 Tread-wear=N/A Traction=N/A Temperature=N/A Load Cap=2150lb @ Max Inflation=44psi Speed Rating=118mph Casing Sidewall=4ply 10" infl. width & 4 steel tread support belts (up from 2) Weight=43lbs NO Tread-wear protection. (puncture resistant) 29.2" diameter

PN# 51770 Tread-wear=560 Traction=A Temperature=B Load Cap=2403lb @ Max Inflation=50psi Speed Rating=118mph Casing Sidewall=6ply 10" infl. width Weight=40lbs 55000 mile Tread-wear protection. 29" diameter

PN# 90000002685 Tread-wear=N/A Traction=N/A Temperature=N/A Load Cap=2403lb @ Max Inflation=50psi Speed Rating=118mph Casing Sidewall=6ply 10" infl. width & 4 steel tread support belts (up from 2) Weight=48lbs NO Tread-wear protection. (puncture resistant) 29.2" diameter

PN# 90000002715 Tread-wear=N/A Traction=N/A Temperature=N/A Load Cap=2679lb @ Max Inflation=75psi Speed Rating=106mph Casing Sidewall=10ply 10" infl. width & 4 steel tread support belts Load range E Weight=52lbs NO Tread-wear protection. 29.4" diameter (LT) version

PN# 51726 Tread-wear=N/A Traction=N/A Temperature=N/A Load Cap=2910lb @ Max Inflation=80psi Speed Rating=106mph Casing Sidewall=10ply 10" infl. width & 4 steel tread support belts Load range E Weight=54lbs 55000 mile Tread-wear protection. Top LT version. Harder denser compound, deeper tread 29.6" diameter This is the one that most places around here tend to stock and sell you when you request this tire.

I was lucky to have a friend in this tire dealership that let me search through their Cooper catalog. (not really an inconvenience since all their stuff is in their computers) Even Cooper's online catalog doesn't list anything but the last model when you try to look for the p245 models rather than the LT245.
With each model and their specific difference each has their own characteristics and "personality" depending on what you are doing and how they are being used. The puncture resistant models (I was told) were made specifically for contractors vehicles and logging "crumbies" that are constantly used for accessing areas likely to have bolts screws sticks, etc that cause frequent flats but that they aren't commonly used for heavy hauling or towing so they like a softer ride. But being a commercial use, they don't offer them with any treadwear protection.

Oh yeah! The price is different for each model too. I saved around $300 on the 4-set under the price of the Top LT set.

cody.vandieren · **Posted:** Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:09 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I've been looking at Kenda Klever AT KR28 245 70R 16s as something a bit more targeted towards getting around muddy grass fields, and some sand dune action.
However...
Don't know how long it will last but right now Cooper has a promotion going and giving 50-70 dollars back after purchase of a set of 4, and includes the Cooper A/T 3's. I have to admit the price difference is making me waver a bit.

{edit}

Quote:

Have been advised against an LT tire for ride reasons.

Unless you carry a full capacity load of whatever and / or tow heavy things, that's good advice. Tires of a same size being LT or Not LT, The LT will have much heavier casing / sidewall. (IE 10ply vs 4 ply) The inflation pressures and load ratings will be somewhere around double. On a commuter vehicle it will ride like a buckboard wagon and rattle your fillings loose if you have em. They are why pickups ride nice when they are loaded down or towing, but ride like trucks when empty.

If you are into rock crawling and that kind of stuff, you may want them anyway, since they have much greater sidewall strength, and are much harder to puncture when aired down.

This kind of confusion is frequently reflected by ratings of people that have shopped online without knowing this. Particularly when you see people's (very low) ratings where they have put tires on a truck and say it can't tow for beans because it has "tread squirm". Usually, this is because they bought the cheapest tires they could find that had the same numbers that were on their vehicles tires without paying attention to the LT designation on the more expensive ones.

{next edit)
One more very good reason to stay away from the LT tires is weight. In any given model and size, an LT version of the tire will weight 15 to 20 pounds MORE. EACH. That's 15-20lbs each spring and shock have to control for every bump and dip in the road. It's also 60-80lbs MORE inertial rotating resistance all the way out at the end of the wheels, that has to be overcome, when you want to surprise the smart-ass kid in the next lane that keeps revving his lumpy old nova with open exhaust, while waiting for the green light.

I have the kenda klevers on my 07 Silverado. I really like them. They look good and are great in mud and snow. They have a little road noise but it doesnt bother me.
The only complaint I have about them is that they throw up a lot of rocks from the gravel roads here in Iowa.

fatweasel · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:52 am

Went with Cooper AT-w, I think it is a new/recent offering for Cooper.

All season tire that gets the "mountain snowflake" symbol for winter driving.

P235-75-R16.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:35 pm

My understanding was the mountain snowflake symbol is for a mud/snow tire, not just an all-season. All seasons tend to suck equally in all seasons, where a true mud/snow will just rock it in the slop, but might be a bit noisy or wear faster in the dry

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PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

geordi wrote:

My understanding was the mountain snowflake symbol is for a mud/snow tire, not just an all-season. All seasons tend to suck equally in all seasons, where a true mud/snow will just rock it in the slop, but might be a bit noisy or wear faster in the dry

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The mountain snowflake symbol mean it's an approved winter tire. you need that symbol in the Canadian province where snow tire are required.

The old M/S symbol is about the same but just not approved !!!

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

I have a set of Cooper AT/w 245 70r16

I mesure the tread brand new at 12/32 and after 13600 miles they are now 8/32
I'm a very easy driver for most of the time.

The perfomance in the winter is OK , they are really good on the highway, silent and good fuel economy.
the are decent in offroad situation when air down .

they are also a little bit undersized !

For the price I've paid , 460$cdn this is not a bad tire but there is better option out there .

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

I run Cooper Discoverer A/T3 in the summer and Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V2 in the winter - both 245/75-16 on Wrangler Rubicon "Moab" wheels with a Old Man Emu “Nitrocharger” Lift Kit. Very pleased with both.

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