Exhaust manifold removal procedure?

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:33 am

Searched threads, unclear.

Today I spent an hour trying to finagle the recessed top-accessible (#3 lower) mounting bolt, aft of the turbo; I was able to insert a 12-point 3/8 drive short socket over the other recessed lower mounting nut (used a slender 3/8 breaker-bar to start it), but no matter how much rotation/lube I can't get the socket to fit into the recess and over the nut.
I used a right-angle pick to try to scrape-away any potential muck that would obstruct a socket but it didn't help. What's the deal? Has anybody had similar probs accessing that 2nd recessed exh man nut?

I'm seriously considering removing the turbo to improve access to the exh. man. bolts, but that looks like an additional pita that I'd really like to avoid if possible.

if anybody is aware of a good man-removal thread I'd appreciate the link.
Thanks!

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:39 am

What about leaving the exh man/turbo attached and removing them together with the head as a combined 'assembly'?
How doable is that given the location of the exhaust man downpipe flange? Less aggravating/time consuming than fighting the buried exh man/turbo mounting bolts?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:50 am

To do what you propose, you still have to remove the oil supply and oil drain from the turbo, and that's the only remotely difficult part. Once the turbo is out, everything else is cake. I suppose there may possibly be a way, but why would anyone want to manhandle something that heavy and awkward when you don't have to?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:30 am

You need to remove the turbo before you can remove the exhaust manifold.

Yes, you can lift the head, manifold, and turbo off in one piece. But you will need a hoist or assistant to make that happen. Otherwise you will soon become good friends with a chiropractor.

Locked KJ · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:39 am

Just had my head off recently. I took the head, exhaust manifold and turbo off as one. The oil return line bolts are a pita. I pulled the banjo bolt out of the oil feed line and bent the feed line a bit so it would slip out of the way. I had a buddy hold the feed line up while I pulled the head up and out.

A small suggestion. Threading in the oil return bolts once everything was back in, I found to be nearly impossible. I wound up pulling the head back off, getting the bolts started and then had my buddy slip the return line into the block and hold the feed line up while I placed the head back on.

By the way, I climbed into the engine bay. So I had much better leverage and to save myself the aformentioned trip to the chiropractor

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:39 am

I send holiday gifts to my chiropractor... have for 28 years.

So, (ballpark) how heavy is the head solo vs w/turbo & exh man attached? I, too, am standing above the motor... probably good to 100# for wrastling an assembly out solo. But I'd prefer 70... I also have an extra pair of arms today for a "game-lift" (men-hoist) using straps and a breaker bar.
Given grief versus weight, which is a better approach?

Is it worth pulling the H2O pump's rear 1/2 housing to remove turb/man?

How horrific is the exh. man.-to-downpipe flange access/wrastle? after an hour failing to get a purchase on the rear recessed exh man nut...

Re turb removal,
A. Down pipe; how many bolts attach to turb?
B. The 4-nuts turb to man; Tips for R&R?
C. Turb flange-band to exh. out; cooperates?
D. Disconnect vac line; any hidden horrors?
A-D All together = Removed turb?

I have the input off the turb: No prior running issues; maybe 1mm max back-forth play, imperceptible lateral play. Kosher?
Many Thanks!

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:11 pm

I have done a total of 6 head gaskets now. When I can I try to leave the turbo and manifold connected to the head. I don't mind the extra weight. But to get the manifold off you have to remove the turbo first. Either way you do it the turbo oil feed and drain lines have to come off. The they are a pita to get back on. I've developed a system where I stick a piece of gum in my socket to hold the bolt and with a 6" extension I can get the inner drain bolt back in "fairly" easy

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:53 pm

Gum! NOW we're talkin' pro-fessional! Can-do. Thanks.

In six HG jobs, what have you done to the heads? # of heads decked, valve seats spun, other machine shop work? Replaced any/all valves, seals, etc?

Along with HG, also installing new rockers/ARPS/Tbelt kit/Water pump/thermo/3 front oil seals/motor mounts/Trans cooler/AC condenser.
Any other strong suggestions?

This job is entirely preventative; I had no leaks and minimal noise at tear down. Therefore, I see no reason to have the head decked, but I am replacing the exhaust valves and stem-seals so I'll have a shop spin the seats. I was also thinking of having them dip-clean the entire valve cover/intake man assembly to de-gunk the pre Sasq I/II sludge.
That said, this design is new to me, the whole "integrated-cam" setup in the valve cover; I'm more than a bit nervous about the notion of subjecting the cam bearings to a chem-cleaning just to doll-up the surrounding assembly. But that sludged intake plenum looks like a pita to get internally clean. Opinions?

Locked KJ · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:28 pm

I brought the intake manifold to the machine shop when I had them test my head. I asked if they dunked it in the cleaning tank if it would have any adverse affects on the cam bearings. He said no and they are a very reputable shop. So I said go ahead. It had a lot of sludge built up in there.

Mind you I just finally got mine running today so it's gonna be a while before I would notice anything but it's a place I trust. I also oiled everything up real good before reassembly.

Just to throw it out there I had the machine shop drill and tap a 1/8 npt hole in an unused bolt hole near the alternator bracket for a future boost sensor. Just sayin. If your bringing it there anyway. I just threw a plug in until I can swing an A pillar gauge set. I also had them do one in the exhaust manifold but it wound up being in a bad spot. So that plug will be more permanent and I'll have to figure out a different spot in the future

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:31 pm

Depends on the person I'm doing them for. Some have them hot tanked. Which I highly suggest doing to the head and valve cover assembly. The last two I have done and will do from here on out I have replaced the valves

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:44 pm

Thanks for heads-up on dipping cams at shop, your other experience with heads!
Head/Exh/Turb assembly is out. Greatly appreciate your answers, and came up with a few of my own.

Yes, those (2) 8mm turb oil-out down-pipe bolts are FUN! The inside one took almost an hour with socket combos and a well-worn copy of the Kama Sutra* (unsurprisingly, the contortion that ultimately worked my last girlfriend wouldn't even consider...). Tri-articulated 3/8 drive, short-well 8mm w/a stubby (<2") extension.
If you've got help, two-feet of extensions & u-joint from the ground with person above keeping purchase on bolt-head looks like 5-minutes for both.
What about the option of removing the oil-tube with the turb, disconnecting the tube from it's lower end? How accessible are the lower tube mounting bolts?
I'll survey when doing motor-mounts (etc) manyana.

I definitely concur that it's a net-positive to remove the head w/ the turb/exh man attached:

I. Total weight about 60# :BANANA:

!!! I guess I was dreading the load of a too-familiar 6.9 iron head...
II. The only real grief-inducer is those two turb bolts.
III. The turbs oil-inlet tube is easily flexible enough to get past; just angle the assembly a bit once the exhaust-out pipe is free.
VI. Once off, I realized that all 4 Turb-to-man nuts are extension-accessible through-turb, but why bother when you can do the same thing with great ease after removed w/head.
V. My initial reference to both exh man out & turb exh out was delirious. Pardons.

My turb disconnect procedure (stays w/exh. man.):
Tools: 8mm shallow, 10mm deep, 15mm sockets, short/long extensions, tri-articulated (3/8") socket drive.

DO NOT SCRATCH THE CYLINDER HEAD'S SURFACES DURING REMOVAL!!!

A. All rubber hoses off.
B. Use tool to pry-off vac hose from vac module; don't risk damaging vac hose by yanking on the hose to remove.
C. Remove (3) 10mm bolts securing vac module on top of turb; leave down-arm attached to turb, but lean it out of the way enough to...
D. Remove 15mm oil-input tube's banjo bolt, located on top-center of turb (bag it after removal to keep clean).
D. Loosen 10mm turb exh-out flange clamp enough to slide clamp down pipe; "loose' is not enough, clamp must be slid-away for turb-pipe separation.
E. Remove (2) 8mm bolts under turb securing oil-output pipe. Pita (use friend, see above).
F. Remove 10mm bolt connecting turb to mounting bracket, located beneath and facing away from turb; easy.
G. Gently bend oil-input tube slightly away enough to ease assembly forward and out.
H. Don't forget to disconnect the (4) glo-plug elec. connectors on intake side of head.
I. Gently and deliberately slide entire assembly forward and out. Manageably heavy for the average monkey.

DO NOT SCRATCH THE CYLINDER HEAD'S SURFACE DURING REMOVAL!!!

I'm probably ignorant of a bunch of additional stuff, but that's all I've got to give right now.

*Careful with that mighty tome: if the proprietor is under 50, it may be sticky. Over 50, dusty.

Locked KJ · **Posted:** Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:06 am

The oil drain tube does not have bolts where it goes into the block. It just slides right into a grommet on the side of the block. It's held in by everything else being bolted together. If you have help, leaving that on while putting the head back on is the way to go. As much as getting those two 8mms out was difficult, getting them lined up to thread back in was by my estimate 4 times as hard :furious:

If anything I would just leave them a little loose so you have some play to get that tube back in the block. Then just snug em up the rest of the way once the head is on. Of course hinging on you having a little help from a friend.

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:58 pm

Pre-starting the bolts on the removed oil-drain tube = fantastic advice!

Do you recommend using sealant (ultra-black or mopar) around the oil drain tube's push-in flange at the block end? Seems like common sense, but I haven't yet seen the fit.
Is there an O-ring?

Using your method, once everything is re-located and ready for tightening, I'd put solo-tightening of the two 8mm bolts at about a 7 on the aggravation 10-scale. Using a tri-articulated 3/8 drive (has two u-joints) allows you to form a big "J" with the drive, then use a shorty extension with a regular 8mm socket (together, they should still be at least 1/2' shorter than a deep well socket). I've got thick hands, but using that combination/method from above I was still able to find a position where one hand could "comfortably" reach underneath to press/hold the drive upward to grip the bolt-head, and then with the driver-hand could make a bunch of 1/4" turns until the bolt is out/in. I'd guess it was tightened to about 40-50# of torque; doable even with a "J" tool configuration.

That said, those two bolts would be WAAAY easier with a "twister" on the ground, a capable "holder" topside, then a slew of extensions (guessing 30"ish), a u-joint, then about 6" to the bolt-head. Obviously, using an adaptor(s) you can mix and match your 3/8" and 1/2" (and 3/4, etc) extensions as necessary to get that 30"ish of length; the R&R torque is <50#, the mixed extensions and ujoint should handle that force without failure. However, if for some reason the bolts are crazy-tight, (most) 3/8-1/2 adapters can and do break.

(My tri-articulated 3/8" drive is my 'default' wrench. I find their design allows you to really "feel" graduated-torgue as you tighten stuff, and they're reliably 'leanable' to +-70# of torque (=most stuff). And obviously, if there's any rotational clearance issues you can usually just 'shape' it on the fly without grabbing other tools. I own a 2nd one specifically for tight applications, identical except that I disabled the 'socket-lock' bearing so that it will effortlessly release from the socket. Sockets are deeper than the drive's 'knob', and in some situations that >1/4" is crucial for inserting/removing the drive, extensions and/or socket. A "freed" drive can be a lifesaver)

Locked KJ · **Posted:** Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:36 pm

There was no o-ring where the tube presses into the block. It's a snug fit so I was comfortable without using any kind of sealer. Just made sure it was nice and clean

I just used I tiny but strong snap on swivel 1/4" ratchet. I was totally happy with how much torque I got on there. Matter of fact I used little ratchets on almost everything that threaded into the head or intake assembly. Not a fan of spinning the threads out of aluminum. For instance the service manual only calls for 25 n*m on the bolts that hold the intake to the head. That's only 18.5 ft lbs. Don't go cranking those down with your biggest baddest ratchet.

I also used permatex anti-seize on pretty much every bolt. Minus the arp studs of course.

Just some friendly advice. Anyone doing a job like this is already mechanically inclined and it sounds like you've got things under control. Don't be a jackass like me and forget to put the ground for the tcm back on and chase a mystery electrical problem for a month.

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:50 pm

Thanks for tips!

When performing major disassembly on unknown vehicles, normally I use my cell to snap pics/vid of vehicle-specific procedures for review during reassembly. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting (in Baja) on tmobile's cell-insurance to honor my dead-phone claim

, so I've lacked that benefit on this CRD HG job.
I'm still not very familiar with the CRD-specific system-tentacles. I'm leaning on pre-CRD experience/common sense including component/connector diversity, tube/cable 'memory' and fit, and patient analysis. And, of course, if those methods fail me, you guys :oops:

Since you've tossed a specific 'caution', it would be helpful to know:

Where exactly is this (apparently forgettable) "TCM-ground" located? Is it one of the black modular plugs located above the top-rear of the valve cover, or?

Thanks

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:01 pm

Masking or painters tape is your friend! You can write on it and tag everything with it! Get you some, number all plugs and corresponding wires! A-A, B-B, 1-1, 2-2, etc., you get the idea... :lol:

Be sure and mark injector wires to which injector, and the MAP and fuel rail pressure connectors as I think some of them are the same shape and size and interchangeable and can get mixed up as some have stated on this forum. IF you remove injectors, number them 1-4 front to rear!
End the end, you can remove all tape and trash it!!! :wink:

Locked KJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:59 pm

Definitely a good idea on the marking stuff. I used zip lock bags and just put sets of bolt for various components in them and wrote what they were and what size they were on the bags. Also left them in order so I reassembled everything in the right order.

That ground wire is near the passenger fender. There is a small bracket next to the tcm holding 4 large main harness connectors. Right next to that (toward the firewall) is an 8mm bolt that holds the ground loop down. I threaded that bolt back into its hole after I pulled the harness out. In retrospect I should have bagged it and marked it like everything else.

On day 3 of finally driving this little beast. Even though she fought me pretty good when trying to resurrect her. Stayed true to J.E.E.P.....Just Empty Every Pocket. I love listening to the little sewing machine. Can't wait to try the lockers with some new bfg ko2s I'm getting put on saturday.

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:34 am

Glad to hear that yours is post-op purring. (can a chugger "purr"? Most Def ! )

Thanks for the details on the TCM ground. Like you, I just lightly threaded that 8mm bolt back in place.
I did # the injectors during removal, but I guess after 70-ish soob HG jobs I'm just too stupidly arrogant to resort to tagging everything. Probably leading to regrets ahead.
Familiarity aside, I submit that the worst enemies of efficient and correct re-assembly are time and distraction...

Exhaust manifold removal procedure?

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