I’m a new member here. I recently bought and installed a new 4J/1G Hi Performance Engine thermostat. After researching the difference in operation of my ’05 CRD Liberty in the stock 176 temp thermostat and the 203 temp thermostat, I determined that the higher temperature would be all around better for the performance and durability of this engine.

I purchased my 4J/1G Hi Performance Engine Thermostat from Jeffrey Allan Bauer , 1-780-434-2324, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I found the installation instructions easy and helpful and had the jeep up and running in no time. This product is top quality, designed to easily switch out a different thermostat with just a few loosened bolts, and should easily outlast the life of this engine. The stock housing had a plastic return nipple for the hose connected to the reservoir that broke, so I’m thankful that the new thermostat came with a higher quality metal nipple.

With the 4J/1G installed, the Jeep can now get up to full operating temp in just 2 and a half miles, thanks in part to the larger coolant flow. Previously, it would take over 5 miles, still not reaching the engine’s designed operating temperature, because of its restricted 176 degrees stock thermostat.

After installation, while on cruise control & the same highway, I’ve discovered a small changed in RPMs of the engine. Prior to installation, it was slightly over 1700 RPMs. Now it’s slightly below 1700 RPMs, which indicates better fuel mileage.

I highly recommend that people look into this product. Unfortunately, the link [http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=169&t=81568 ]which I followed before I was a member now state “You are not authorized to read this forum”. PLEASE HELP! Can someone explain to me how I had access to this link as a non-member, but now am “NOT AUTHORIZED” as a member?

Just a couple of comments. If your engine is getting up to temperature faster it's because you have less coolant flow rather than more. Your OE thermostat was probably failing open and allowing too much flow = too much cooling = too much time to reach operating temperature. Your new thermostat is behaving like a new properly operating OE thermostat would.

At highway speeds the TC is locked so there is direct coupling between the engine and wheels. If your rpm is lower with the new thermostat then your speed is also slower. It's impossible to be any other unless your lockup clutch is slipping. I've nut seen any published numbers on this but the higher temperature should result in better fuel economy but make sure you make any comparison under the same conditions i.e. same journey, same speed, same ambient temperature and against a properly functioning OE thermostat.

As for the other claims of better reliability and durability are concerned, well I've yet to see any studies or data to prove that this is the case for this vehicle.

The thread you point to is considered advertising and since Jeff no longer sponsors this forum is is no longer accessible.

I'm glad your enjoying your new thermostat and find value in it.

I have had similar results with Jeff's thermostat except for the change in engine RPM. I don't understand how a change in engine temperature can result in a change in RPM........unless a very low engine temperature was causing the transmission to remain below the threshold temperature of locking the torque converter......but that seems unlikely.

I cannot access the threads either. Heather our sometimes-involved forum nazi.......I mean administrator has completely removed the threads because Jeff Bauer is no longer a vendor. I think this unfair to the rest of the forum members who have purchased Jeff's thermostat and want the threads as a technical reference. She could have edited the threads by removing the purchase information and then locking them........but wait that would require some effort.


I copied the following from Heather's profile:

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:26 pm
Last visited: -
Total posts: 164
[0.02% of all posts / 0.04 posts per day]
Search user’s posts
Most active forum: KJ 4X4 Discussion---2002-2007 Liberty Models
[ 45 Posts / 27.44% of user’s posts ]
Most active topic: Pre-assembled CRD strut with 1.5" daystar spacer?
[ 6 Posts / 3.66% of user’s posts ]

I think that says it all - 164 posts in 11 years.

I pasted her signature below:
Groups: AdministratorsGlobal moderatorsKJs ModeratorsLifetime MembersRegistered users
Location: Big Bear Lake, CA
Occupation: Jeep Shop Owner
Interests: God -- Family -- All *JEEP* Products
Website: http://www.alljproducts.com
What model of Jeep or 4x4 do you drive?: JK

Notice her website address.......


And here's a link with a post by Ceearedeedriver that lists the thermostats available for Jeff's housing.

viewtopic.php?f=167&t=83649

_________________
2006 CRD Sport
GDE FT ECO tune, GDE TCM ECO tune, ARP studs, HDS-001 203F T-Stat, 3.7L nylon fan & Hayden 2905 clutch, Carter P76148M in-tank pump, Racor 245R122 filter head & 2 micron R25S fuel filter, Provent 200, Samcos, Fumoto F-102, Litens 920834A de-coupler, PML rear diff cover, OEM trans pan with welded in bung, JBA UCAs, full skids.

The TC locks based on transmission fluid temperature. RPM required to maintain a set speed has nothing to do with engine temperature or engine efficiency. Seeing benefits that don't really exist is simply a side effect of sticker shock

Now, I'm not suggesting that op isn't seeing a change in his rpm but he needs to look elsewhere for the real reason other than his new thermostat.

The administration sucks here. The only one on here on a regular basis is Tommudd.

That and the website is down pretty often it seems.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

Heather is not an active poster. She pays the bills and keeps lostjeeps.com running.
If you want to advertise your product on lostjeeps.com, you contact her and she makes it happen.

No, I dont think she should have deleted everything. But its her rules.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Always making reference to the Model 001 price, and spinning the narrative to where it is your stated uninformed opinion that the Model 001 is not worth the price. Why can't you just accept the fact that ALL of my customers have been very satisfied with the Model 001?

You may have defeated your own argument by stating that the torque converter locks up based on transmission temperature. The temperature of automatic transmissions on most vehicles is directly or indirectly related to engine temperature. A lot of auto transmissions are cooled simply by having a line running through the a tank in the engine coolant radiator. In the Liberty CRD, the transmission is cooled by a separate combination transmission cooler & A/C condenser in front of the intercooler and engine radiator. It could be that the engine radiator is getting just hot enough that it just pushes the transmission fluid temperatures up high enough to trip the torque converter to lock up, simply by being next to each other. There is also the considerably warmer, very heavy engine block that is mated to the transmission to consider... that also can contribute to the torque converter locking up.

"Liberty CRDs with the 545RFE have a combination transmission cooler & A/C condenser in front of the intercooler and engine radiator." --- A DIRECT QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA

With OD-on, the TC will always lockup in 4th gear at about 51mph and remain locked when it shifts to 5th at 61mph.
These shift points are with a factory CRD TCM. A GDE tuned TCM or Hemi TCM may have different shift points.
When the transmission is cold, TC lockup may be delayed until proper temperature is achieved.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Temperature of the engine should have exactly nothing to do with the RPMs of the engine while cruising on the highway. I'm not sure what else is going on, but something else is going on.

As far as the link that you tried to follow that did not work, most likely that is because those threads have all been hidden since Jeff is no longer a vendor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Except I never actually said that. Please refrain from commenting on my opinions unless you're prepared to back your assertions up with verbatim quotations from my postings with a link to the actual post. The reality is you won't find any occurrences of me saying "the Model 001 is not worth the price".


I have no problem accepting this. I have no doubt you've produced an excellent product but there are reasons you only have a tiny portion of the replacement thermostat market for this vehicle.

I don't see any problem with your customers reporting their experiences with your product but members should be free to challenge obvious discrepancies in perceived benefits.

Absolutely correct! Once the transmission fluid temperature is satisfied, the torque converter lock-up points or engine RPM vs speed relationships are set in stone and are solely based on the speed signal input to the TCM from the speed sensor. I do not believe engine temperature plays into any variance whatsoever on transmission lock-up setpoints !!!
I would bet GDE could confirm this since they are capable of reprogramming TCM's and TC lock-up points.....

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Ceearedeedriver:

"Except I never actually said that. Please refrain from commenting on my opinions unless you're prepared to back your assertions up with verbatim quotations from my postings with a link to the actual post. The reality is you won't find any occurrences of me saying "the Model 001 is not worth the price".

If that is the case, then what did you actually mean when you wrote the following statement above?

"Seeing benefits that don't really exist is simply a side effect of sticker shock "

To me, the words "sticker shock" directly correlate to the phrase "not worth the price". Why would someone tag a product or service with the words "sticker shock" if they saw the quality and value of said product or service?

What I mean is that when people pay a high price for something they sometimes justify it by perceiving benefits that don't really exist.


To me the words "sticker shock" mean unexpectedly high price. Look, the price is higher than one would expect to pay for a thermostat housing - "sticker shock". I've never seen such an expensive housing. I believe that even you realise this because you said you're "making inroads to having the Model 001 and the proposed Model 002 made overseas" viewtopic.php?f=167&t=83649 The #1 reason for moving production overseas is to reduce the costs but, unless other circumstances are forcing you to look for new manufacturing facilities, why would you go to these lengths and take such risk if you're content with the price you're charging? OTOH if it's about increasing your margins why would you tell us?

Is current Model 001 overpriced? No. Given your R&D, materials, manufacturing costs, payment for your time and a modest profit I have no problem agreeing that your price is realistic and fair.
Is it high quality? Absolutely. I've never seen any complaints about quality or bad reviews of the product itself.
Does it offer value? Yes it provides benefits over and above what any other solution does.
Does it offer value for money? Not in my opinion. The additional benefits it provides over the alternatives do not justify the higher cost. Of course, I accept that others may have a different set of priorities.
Would I by one? No. I'm happy with the solution I have at the moment.

Jesh folks can we just back away from the keyboard. Is the OEM tstat a good design, no tstat design that requires replacing the entire housing to "fix" a $10 problem is a good design. Is the Crown replacement decent; no. Is Kap's alternative a good one; yes if it was still in production, worked fine for a year of so on my son's 06 before upgrading to TDFs. Is the DIY spec one that's somewhere on the forum good; probably but I have no data. Is the inline good; maybe if a skirt hole is drilled but I worry about circulation during warm up and there is some speculation it's prone to aggravating known head issues. Is TDFs design a good one; yes from a technical perspective it's fine and works well enough that I bought 2. Is TDFs pricey; yep but if you don't like the price then don't buy it and/or throw rocks at his business model which is his business not yours (e.g. he needs to take in a certain amount of money to sustain his business whether or not you "like" that amount).

So bottom line can both sides of this rather silly "debate" about price just declare a truce?

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I am simply getting tired of members like Ceearedeedriver feeling it is necessary to put in their two cents about my product when they haven't even tried it.

On several occasions a customer of mine has taken the time to post a review of the Model 001; this is wonderful and I appreciate the time they took to do so. I want all feedback, both positive and negative, to be available for other CRD owners to view. Negative reviews are just as important to me as the positive ones... I can not improve upon my product unless I hear from customers out there where I am falling short.

However, I am interested in feedback from people who actually are using the Model 001, not from armchair quarterbacks who have watched a few episodes of "How Its Made" and think that they have the manufacturing industry all figured out.

Lately I have had threads started by customers of mine, and the next thing you know a member who is a naysayer just HAS to post a counter-opinion, with the naysayer's entire argument based on sheer speculation. It is annoying to have a member take the time to post a new thread with their feedback derived from actual use of the product they purchased, and then have that review questioned unjustifiably and unfairly by other members, like what has happened here with Ceearedeedriver.

Who does Ceearedeedriver think he is, making assertions that he knows what is going on in the mind of MushroomMan? If he has the professional credentials like a Doctorate Degree in Psychology to back his claims that MushroomMan is seeing things because of "Sticker Shock", then he can post them for everyone to see. He will also require the peer-reviewed scientific studies on human behavior involving the purchasing of expensive items that he has taken the time to research and summarize for us. If Ceearedeedriver has these credentials and is willing to do the research, then by all means he should post all of this so we can see for ourselves that he is indeed the expert in these matters.

In the meantime, I think it is only fair and just to take any member's reviews on a product at face value, and not to play psychologist with the review.

Firstly, you are engaging in semantics and word-play. You just admitted that you do not believe Model 001 offers value for money; by default you therefore believe that the Model 001 is not worth the price.

Secondly, since this is the first time most of us CRD owners have had to deal with thermostat valves in their own housings as an assembly, your statement "I've never seen such an expensive housing" is therefore rather meaningless as there is nothing to compare the Model 001 to. Your statement is also sadly inaccurate. As I have had to keep repeating over and over again, I do not simply manufacture thermostat housings. I manufacture a completely finished and assembled thermostat unit that is ready to install. There is a LOT more value added to my product than mere machined housings.

We should consider ourselves lucky... it could be a lot worse, (and likely will be in the future). The thermostat assembly for the Colorado/Canyon pickups with the Duramax 2.8L diesel engine is only about $100.00 USD/$160.00 CDN here in North America. That same cheaply built - with cast aluminum housings - thermostat assembly is 465 Euros in Germany!!! And don't bother comparing the O.E. thermostat assembly to the Model 001; that is like comparing a Fiat 500 to a Lamborghini... both are Italian automobiles, but that is where the similarities end.

Thirdly, I doubt that you have purchased many things of quality in your life, because most products that are machined here in North America are very expensive, especially products that cater to very narrow, specialized markets. I saw aluminum housings for gas meters being anodized at the company I do the parts for the Model 001 at... those housings cost the end-users hundreds of dollars each, and there is less work in those than there are in the Model 001 parts. You have NEVER seen such an expensive housing? You obviously haven't been looking very hard. Go and price out a receiver for a Ruger No.1 rifle, (essentially, a steel housing for the trigger and falling block mechanisms), and then tell me my price justifies "sticker shock".

You are correct in stating that the main reason for moving my manufacturing overseas is to lower my cost of manufacturing, but this does not mean that my product does not give excellent value for the price. As you have not directly seen the benefits the Model 001 can provide, you are simply speculating.

How is it possible for you to have sticker shock for engine parts while owning a Liberty CRD?!? This engine has formed coolant hoses for the viscous heater that cost a couple of hundred dollars, (for a little kit of three small hoses!!!), and fuel injectors that are over $1000.00 each. For you to say that you are having sticker shock with aftermarket, low production parts for the CRD is kind of like going to Aleppo in Syria and being surprised when you are shot at.

Wake up Ceearedeedriver, this is not your Father's 1970's era Chevrolet Caprice; it is relatively sophisticated 4X4 SUV powered by a European diesel engine. Then engine parts are expensive...get over it.

_________________
I can do a job quick, good, or cheap, pick ONE.


2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

Holy sh*t......does any thread Jeff is involved not get out of hand?

_________________
2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

OK, so let's go back to my original posting which I notice you never actually made any comment on. So without taking things off on a tangent again you can maybe address these points in the context that we already all acknowledge that your Model 001 is superior to everything else available in every possible way but price so no need to cover that well trodden ground yet again.

Do you agree or disagree that when one replaces a non-functioning (failed open) OE thermostat you will see improved heat up time regardless whether you replace it with the Model 001 OR a properly functioning OE thermostat? Rather than just providing a blanket statement telling us "it's faster", maybe you can provide us with some actual numbers from your design testing i.e. ambient temperature versus time to reach a standard temperature e.g.175F versus time to reach thermostat set point. I assume you did take these measurements?
Do you agree or disagree that rpm versus speed is not a function of engine temperature so cannot be attributed to your housing?

The thing is Jeff when I, or anyone else, makes any comment about your product that you don't like you interpret it as a smear campaign and go postal on them.

As usual you've taken exception to a few comments I made here and are trying to turn the whole thread into a shyte slinging contest for the umpteenth time.

To the person that makes this product, engaging in a shyte show for everyone to see doesn't help you. Can't please everyone. I for one have thought about spending the money, but I see the true colors coming out. I'll just stick with a piece of cardboard for now. Have a great day!

_________________
I can do a job quick, good, or cheap, pick ONE.


2005 Jeep Liberty CRD