HELP! 2006 2.8L CRD Liberty - engine missing, smoking badly

lightman45 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:09 pm

My wife's 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8L diesel is giving some serious problems. I would appreciate your help and suggestions. The engine sounds like it is missing on one or two cylinders, loss of power, smokes like a freight train, and has loud knock when accelerating. In the last 3 months we have towed the vehicle to two independent mechanics, and to two dealerships. The first mechanic said he cleaned the injectors ($350 ), and it actually ran better for a few days and then back to same condition. WE carried it back to the first mechanic and he said he did not know what was wrong. The second mechanic kept it for 9 weeks and eventually said he did not know what was wrong. The first dealership, after looking at vehicle said they did not have anyone qualified to work on the 2.8L diesel. The second dealership programmed the PCM, with no change, and then told us they had done all they could do ( $250 ) The jeep has 99,000 miles on it and has not had any serious problems until recently. We have had the problems with the EGR valve and had it replaced two or three times. Can someone please tell me what to look for? I just drove it 65 miles back from the second dealership and it is doing the same thing, missing, loss of power, smoking, and knocking when accelerating. On a flat road I could run 70 mph and it sounds normal until you start up hill, and then weak power, heavy smoke , and knocking when under load. Does anyone know of a mechanic in North Carolina ( I'm in Sanford, NC ), or surrounding area that is qualified ( and knows what they are doing ) to work on these things. The Jeep is clean and in good condition other than this problem, I hate to junk it. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. We are senior citizens (70's) and aren't able to keep carrying this vehicle all over the country, not to mention the expense with no results.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:20 pm

Very first question. Has the timing belt service been done? If so when?

lightman45 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:34 pm

No, timing belt has not been replaced.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:24 pm

Well by age your TB job should have been done ca. 2012; by miles "now". My off the cuff guess is if you are very lucky your 2 CAC hoses are shot hence smoke and loss of power or your turbo vanes may be stuck or the vacuum reservoir solenoid may be on its way out (smoke and no boost).

Ignoring the above you need a timing belt job NOW!!!! and if you are not lucky new rockers/lifters.

He is not local but he does travel up and down the east coast and has worked on a bunch of CRDs with these types of issues so I'd recommend you PM or email geordi. Click on the Members tab at the top right of the page; click on Find a Member a bit further down on the right just above the member list header bar; type geordi in the Username box on the left; click search then scroll down for the result and you will see a PM and email tab. I'd use email as notice of incoming PMs is iffy.

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:32 pm

did you ever worked on cars , or are you willing to work on this car yourself ? it is not hard , you just need time and space , as for tools this car can be fixed with basic tools, are you ready , ? we are here to help

lightman45 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:03 pm

I worked on cars for years in the past including rebuilding engines. But, I am now in my 70's and can't do it like I used to. I would love to hear your suggestions and I will decide how much if any of the work I think I can do. I have also been in contact with Jim the traveling mechanic to see what he thinks. Thanks, Jim

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:03 pm

Based on what you have described, sounds like you are loosing boost so it could also be a blown boost hose or bad turbo. :roll:

or
Could simply be the EGR valve has failed again and is stuck open and you are loosing boost through it?
You could install a block off plate on the EGR feed tube to rule this out! See this thread:>http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576&hilit
Other possibilities; could be a broken rocker arm or an injector dumping to much fuel?

Unfortunately, many possibilities so a mechanic experienced on these engines needs to diagnose if possible. :roll:

As others have stated, you are also due for a timing belt replacement as well.... :wink:

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:29 pm

Try giving Jerry a call at Global Off-road and Diesel. Their number is 919-784-0411. They are located in Raleigh off Glenwood Ave. They are a diesel shop that builds and repairs diesel vehicles. I had them to the timing belt job on my 06 crd and was very happy with the work and the price they charged. I know they have experience working on crd's. They might be able to help you out in diagnosing the problem.

Jim

jhnbrns · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:57 pm **Posts:** 10

Having the same issues with 05 Liberty CRD with 160K miles. Engine missing and smoking badly since Nov 2016. The timing belt, CAC lines and thermostat were replaced in June 2016. So far, I've fixed all the small leaks on the air intake side (turbo snorkel to throttle and elbow). Also fixed leak at both EGR manifold flange at the EGR. Replaced the vacuum controls and MAP sensor. Please help.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:03 pm

jhnbrns wrote:

Having the same issues with 05 Liberty CRD with 160K miles. Engine missing and smoking badly since Nov 2016. The timing belt, CAC lines and thermostat were replaced in June 2016. So far, I've fixed all the small leaks on the air intake side (turbo snorkel to throttle and elbow). Also fixed leak at both EGR manifold flange at the EGR. Replaced the vacuum controls and MAP sensor. Please help.

Based on what you say has already been done, my first guess would be one or more of the rockers have collapsed due to many miles of EGR usage that has trashed the rocker bearing. It is a fairly common problem. Another possibility is the timing job was not done perfectly, but was instead a "mark and pray" method which may not have un-done the stretch that happens as the belt wears, slowly changing the timing. If the positions are not corrected, then further stretch with the new belt can allow the cams to exceed the safe zone and the rockers will fail as a designed safety feature. Valves not opening b/c the rocker is broken means that the air into or out of that cylinder will not be even with the other cylinders, leading to very rough performance and excess smoke from unburned fuel since the combustion was not correct.

Can you take a video of the engine idling (stand about 1 step back from the middle of the opened hood) for at least 10 seconds and link that here or email it to me? Much can be determined from a video like this. Where are you located?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:42 pm

A video would be helpful if you can take one and upload it to youtube, or email it to someone.

jhnbrns · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:57 pm **Posts:** 10

Geordi, I sent two short movies to you. The first one is at idle. It sounds normal to me. The second one is revving the engine in park to about 2500. Notice a whining or whirring noise which is not normal. While making the video, I noticed a small puff of smoke on the turbo side so I may have another small leak (EGR clamp?).

Other details:

Initially, while trying to diagnose I was able to get one code (p0105) boost. So I replace the sensor and have not seen it since. There are currently no codes and none others seen while working on it.

There was very little play with the turbo and it spun freely from the pump side. The vane actuator responded well while removing the vacuum at idle and also while revving the engine. approx .25" travel.

Had a slow coolant leak for the past year (thought it was the t-stat, replaced) but it is still using about 1 cup every 2-3 weeks. Thanks again.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:33 pm

Here are the movies for everyone to hear. Honestly I'm not hearing anything terribly specific about either of these, which makes me think that there is an exhaust leak or a boost leak that is causing the loss in power and the smoke. If it was the rockers, then it would be uneven at idle too.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/LibertCRD_at_idle.MOV

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/LibertyCRD_revd.MOV

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:22 pm

Based on the videos Geordi posted, I also agree there may be an issue with the boost hoses. Take them out and look very careful if they are punctured. Also, look at the turbo to airbox hose (completely removing it for inspection), since this looks being a stock engine with no tune and mods, I assume that hose is rotten due to the oil from ccv. That tends to rot on the turbo side.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:04 pm

x2 on checking the boost hoses. If they are stock, chances are oil has seeped through and letting boost escape. By chance, was the timing belt recently done and perhaps maybe got off a tooth or two

jhnbrns · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:57 pm **Posts:** 10

The idle sound fine to me however the revving up from park sound different. Whining or whirring. When driving under 20mph, the vehicle accelerates just fine. Try to accelerate up to 30-50, there is a loss of power, lots of little metallic knocks and dark smoke on the road. The gears shift fine and I can gently get up to 60 mph. While cruising at 60, theres very little smoke.

Timing belt and t-stat were replaced last June. The problem became obvious in November. I'm still not ruling out a timing issue. I've already replaced both CAC hoses(small crack at turbo,snorkel), replaced turbo intake snorkel (deteriorated at turbo, replaced both vacuum controls(no known issues), replaced MAP sensor(did have P0105 once and it was clogged), replaced lower EGR tube(leak to EGR, used RTV to seal), high temp RTV on the flange of the upper tube at the EGR(has a .125" split at the flange, observed smoke when rev'd). The RTV is holding fine on upper tube. I pulled the throttle and intake elbow and cleaned (elbow had at most .25" build-up at the bend, throttle had a little gunk on one quarter side of the valve).

What do you think?
Timing is fine since idle is smooth and no different.
Turbo is fine since spins freely with very little play, and variable vane actuator moves with vacuum change.
EGR is working since I could observe black smoke through the EGR leaks above idle. Fixed.
Sensors are fine with no codes.
Air intake is fine. Small leaks repaired. Was not blocked.
Significant loss of power all the time not caused by small coolant leak (read earlier post).

I would like to know how to check/diagnose the timing advance. Or what can negatively affect the timing under load. Thanks.
Thanks

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:56 am

If the turbo is good then recheck your intercooler hoses for tears and leaks.
Its also possible that your intercooler is cracked but less likely.

Given all the problems you are having with the EGR and tubes, its time to ditch it. Get the Sasquatch Motorsports stage 1 and 2 kit.

The only way to check timing is with the timing pins. If all the pins line up then its good.

Also, remove the accesory belt, then start it up and rev the engine to see if any wierd sounds went away.

If the turbo is good, the timing is good, and there are no boost leaks, then I suspect your rocker arms may need replacment.

x-tech · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:09 am

Just a thought, could a partly plugged catalytic converter be the problem? I don't know how a diesel acts with a restricted exhaust.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:59 am

x-tech wrote:

Just a thought, could a partly plugged catalytic converter be the problem? I don't know how a diesel acts with a restricted exhaust.

Just like any other engine; If you cannot freely get the air into the engine or get the exhaust out of the engine, it will stifle its performance and operation! :wink:

jhnbrns · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:57 pm **Posts:** 10

New Info for 05 Liberty. It has better performance, no serious knocking and very little smoke with the EGR disabled (unplugged the MAF). Feels like a little off on performance with acceleration change around 60mph. If the EGR valve is opening (dumping into the intake) and closed(at idle), how could this be a bad EGR valve?

HELP! 2006 2.8L CRD Liberty - engine missing, smoking badly

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