Jeep won't start, being told it needs a new fuel pump

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2012 12:06 pm

Back story: the jeep was running great as it always does. I was changing the oil one day and I decided to take a look at the fuel spill return lines that come out of the top of the injectors. "why?" you might ask, cause I'm an idiot. Well I broke the plastic fitting that goes into the top of the injector. So I took the injector out, took the injector apart (cause I'm an idiot), and got the broken piece of plastic out of the top, glued the plastic back together, ordered a new fuel spill return line, and put the injector back together, put it all back in the jeep, and forgot to prime the fuel system before I tried to start it back up. And she didn't start. So I primed it like crazy, still didn't start. New fuel spill return line came in, replaced the broken one, primed the system, still didn't start.

Finally realized that I couldn't diagnose it so I took it to the dealer, they said air in system, and replaced the fuel head. Still doesn't start. They have checked sensors all over the place and say they are all good and are saying that the reason it wont start is the fuel pump is bad.

Would me trying to start the jeep "dry" cause the fuel pump to fail? And if so, will adding an inline fuel pump basically "bypass" the stock one and allow me to run the jeep, or do they need to run in conjunction?

Clifs: 05 liberty CRD sport won't start, am being told I need a new fuel pump. Can I run a inline electric pump alone w/o the stock mechanical pump?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2012 12:47 pm

Your dealer is an idiot.

Every dealer is an idiot.

Your dealer is an idiot, MUCH worse of one than you claim to be for yourself.

You do not need a new fuel pump, you have air in the high-pressure line because you opened the system and removed the injector. There is no way that I know of to "prime" the high pressure line other than cracking the injector feed line on the #4 injector, and cranking the motor until fuel sprays out. You have to get the air out of that line. It WILL eventually purge with just cranking.... But you might kill your starter several eons before that happens.

First thing to do - Get your CRD away from the dealership, they got LUCKY in diagnosing that it was air in the line, but as usual, screwed it up and replaced something NOT broken by replacing the fuel head.

#1: Your CRD does not have any other fuel pump (unless you added it) besides the ENGINE INJECTION PUMP which turns liquid fuel into 5k-25k psi go-juice.
#2: Replacing the fuel head just added MORE air into the system, but on the low pressure side. This will also naturally purge... But right now, it just made the problem more annoying. You will need to crank the engine more to get past that.
#3: Your dealership is an idiot. Don't trust them to correctly diagnose whether the sun will rise tomorrow, they will get it wrong.
#4: Solution: With a good battery charger hooked up, and cranking for as much as 5 seconds at a time with a 15 second rest to cool down... Crack the #4 injector feed line nut to bleed the air and crank the engine. IT WILL EVENTUALLY FIRE - Provided the dealer now hasn't screwed anything ELSE up.

The biggest one: ALWAYS ASK YOUR QUESTIONS HERE BEFORE EVER VISITING A STEALERSHIP. WE HAVE THE CORRECT ANSWERS, THEY ONLY ANSWER HOW DEEP YOUR WALLET GOES.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Have someone continually priming the fuel system during cranking as much as it will allow. It should fire within 30 seconds of cranking typically.

If that is useless, then you could install clear fuel lines on all the fuel return sources that lead back to the tank. Depending on the flow from each line it could help isolate the problem.

Which injector did you disassemble and how far? If the torque on either end of the body is not within a certain spec the injector could have internal issues.

Did you unplugged any sensors near the injector during the project? Hope we can find the issue for less than the price of a fuel pump.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2012 8:06 pm

Gabe.....make sure you didn't switch the wiring plugs on the back of the fuel rail with the plug on the valve cover. This will cause a no start situation and wont trigger a CEL.

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 9:00 pm

Just got the jeep home. Gonna try all the suggestions that are posted here (thanks for all the help, btw), and report back what does or doesn't work (no criss crossed wires, sam. i was hoping for something that simple!)

side note, the mechanic put in his notes that the fuel pressure when cranking is 349psi, and that the set point is 6489psi, and it takes a min of 2000psi to unset the injector tips. This of any concern to you guys?

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 5:34 pm

geordi wrote:

#4: Solution: With a good battery charger hooked up, and cranking for as much as 5 seconds at a time with a 15 second rest to cool down... Crack the #4 injector feed line nut to bleed the air and crank the engine. IT WILL EVENTUALLY FIRE - Provided the dealer now hasn't screwed anything ELSE up.

How long is eventually? Cause I hooked up my charger and my emergency jump starter (400cca) and did the 5sec on, 15sec rest and killed my bat (I prolly need a new bat, I'm gonna have the yahoos at vatozone check it). I will try again soon.

Also, I opened the #4 injector feed line (the one labeled INJ4, closest to the firewall) and it sprayed fuel out plenty. Do I just let it keep spraying knowing it is spraying out excess air too?

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Have someone continually priming the fuel system during cranking as much as it will allow. It should fire within 30 seconds of cranking typically.

I tried this, but I don't think I went for 30sec, I'll give it a go again but this time have a timer with me so I know I've gone for at least 30sec.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 5:44 pm

If you damaged the injector that you disassembled - and NO fuel comes out, the engine would start and run roughly.

If you damaged the injector and it leaks continuously, the system won't reach sufficient rail pressure to start.

Perhaps that's what is happening, rather than air.

I'd be a little concerned about washing the cylinder walls down, so if you're getting no sign of life I'd suggest taking that injector to a shop for inspection and possible repair/rebuild?

Unless someone has a spare they could ship you to test and see if the problem goes away... ; ' )

Mark

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 11:22 pm

Got a new battery in it, cranked it for about 45sec while priming it and realized that air was getting IN at the fuel filter! So I'm currently working on getting the filter off (the dealer mechanic tightened it with the strength of Zeus!) and putting it on right so there isn't an air leak there.

It sprayed A LOT of fuel out when I had the #4 inj feed line cracked. I feel like I just need to get all the air leaks sealed up and it will prolly start and sputter and purge itself of the air in the high pressure lines. That's what it says it will do in the FSM anyhow.

I also saw this in the FSM "CAUTION: Cranking the engine for an extended period with out a fuel supply may result in damage to the high pressure fuel pump." Which does not sound like something I wanna deal with. Ugh!

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:42 pm

I took off the entire fuel head to get the filter off. the guy must have put the filter on while the fuel head was on the bench cause I had to hold the head in a vice and use a strap wrench to loosen it up. I put the fuel head back on, tighten the filter buy hand, bleed the system a few times, try to start it with no luck, go to bleed it again and it shoots out tons of air and finally some foamy fuel. I prime the system, let it sit for about 5 min, go to prime and bleed again and it has a ton of air in it again. Bleed the air out and then notice that the bleeder screw it leaking fuel out of it even tho I have tightened it all the way. So it turns out I have fuel leaking from the bleeder screw, and an air leak somewhere before the filter.

I'm thinking a lift pump is gonna help me solve these problems. I do have a p0093 code, but I wasn't gonna bug myself with it since the jeep hasn't ran in a month. I wanted to get it running then see if the code is still there. Looks like the code may have been telling me something all along...

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:53 am

Gabe - probably not which sounds odd I know but bare with me. The CRD fuel pump is the CP3 driven by the timing belt on the lower driver's side front of the engine. That pump suck/pulls fuel from the tank thru the fuel filter head hence any leak point in the system between the tank and the CP3 will induce air in the fuel lines; typically without showing a fuel leak (e.g. air is sucked in but fuel is not pushed out). This is true up to the fuel head and between the fuel head and the pump EXCEPT when you prime the fuel head. Priming applies pressure right at the fuel head and can cause fuel to leak (if things are not tight) from a bad fuel heater plug, bad primer bulb seal, poorly sealed filter (includes WIF), or a bleeder screw that's not properly seated. However, once you crank up if any of those points leak fuel while priming then they become an air source while running. Take home if your bleeder screw leaks fuel it's a source of air and a lift pump IMHO is not the cure.

The bleed screw is just like those on a brake cylinder; a "V" shape at the end with a small hole or 2 that seals by bottoming in an inverted "V". Wear or over torque or crud in the "V" can cause a bad seal. Remove and check for crud. If none you will have to replace the fuel head, install a brake bleeder repair kit, or you can check the bleeder thread size and possibly use some brass plumbing parts to put together a version of the bleeder kit Lube Spec (http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/index.php?p=home) used to sell. I'd try the latter. Lube Spec might could tell you what parts to use (they look like off the shelf stuff) or drop me an email and I'll send a picture.

You still may want to add a lift pump but only after the bleeder leak is fixed.

Gabe Watt · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:11 pm

Well, it runs! I found this thread http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57632&hilit=cummins+commonrail+forums&start=0 a while back. I did the trouble shooting in the exact order as suggested and it turns out I needed a new #1 injector, just like GDE was concerned about. So now she lives, and I can stop walking .7 miles to work every morning.

As always, thanks for the help guys! I've "known" Sir Sam for almost 10 years now and he pointed me here when I bought my CRD, and boy am I glad he did!

jinstall · **Posted:** Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:33 pm

keith is such a smart @$$ :wink:

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:55 pm

Congrats. As an afterthought, I wonder if the mechanic 'forgot' to wet the fuel filter seal with diesel. Dry seals are a lot harder to get off.

Winkster · **Posted:** Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:03 am

I've had no start conditions numerous times and made a troubleshooting aid for myself because I'm an electrical engineer, not a mechanical. Here is what I've made.

Trouble Shooting Won’t Start

Symptom: CRD was running fine and died while it was running. Will crank without needing a jump (battery & Alternator are good), but won’t start. No weird noises when it cranks. This assumes you do NOT have a Lift Pump. If you do have a Lift Pump, you have the understanding to bypass the steps associated with low pressure side of the high pressure fuel pump (CP3).

1. Check fuses in the engine compartment and fuse 14 in passenger cabin.
2. Swap the relay for the fuel pump with one of the other identical relays & try it.
3. Can you pressurize the fuel filter manually?
3.a. If yes, go to 4
3.b. If no, you are out of fuel, have a leak (probably before or at the fuel filter) or a blocked line before the fuel filter.
4. Verify that the rail pressure solenoid is properly connected, CAREFULLY dis-connect it and re-connect it.
5. Disconnect the harness connector to the fuel quantity solenoid and try to start. If starts, shut it down IMMEDIATELY.
5.a. You may have bad fuel or a bad fuel quality solenoid.
5.b. If bad fuel, the injectors and the High Pressure Pump (CP3) may be bad and fail soon.
5.c. If bad fuel, you have to flush the entire system.
5.d. CP3 R&R is an eight hour job that requires most of the steps required to replace the timing belt. If you are within 30,000 miles of a timing belt replacement, include it, the bearings and water pump.
6. Replace the fuel lines going to or from or both at the fuel filter with clear hose, re-pressurize the line and see if fuel is present or has bubbles.
6.a. No fuel, you have to trouble shoot if the low pressure pump is bad or you have a blockage.
6.b. If air bubbles are present, you have to find the source.
6.c. Adding a lift pump to the tank is a good way to trouble shoot this.
7. Disconnect the fuel return hose from the fuel rail. Have someone crank the engine while you observe output running into a bottle. Fuel should NOT be coming out of the hose when cranking, only when running. If fuel is present when cranking, the Fuel Pressure Solenoid is bad.

Symptom: CRD was running fine. It was turned off and will not restart

1. Check fuses in the engine compartment and fuse 14 in passenger cabin.
2. Swap the relay for the fuel pump with the relay for the blower & try it.
3. Can you pressurize the fuel filter manually?
3.a. If yes, go to 4
3.b. If no, you are out of fuel, have a leak (probably before or at the fuel filter) or a blocked line before the fuel filter.
4. Is there air in the fuel?
4.a. Replace the fuel lines going to or from or both at the fuel filter with clear hose to see if fuel is present or has bubbles.
4.b. Bleed the fuel filter
5. Check is the Cam Positon Sensor.
5.a. This part used to cost $22, now it’s between $60 and $80.
5.b. You can test this with a Snap-On Tester comparing the rpm craning speed to what the Cam Position Sensor shows.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:15 am

Quote:

Symptom: CRD was running fine. It was turned off and will not restart

You forgot a major contributor to not starting at times: The CPS (Crank Position Sensor)!!! :wink:

Jeep won't start, being told it needs a new fuel pump

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