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Installing head gasket, confirmations appreciated:
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Author:  Gypsy62 [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Installing head gasket, confirmations appreciated:
(Finally!) Before committing to the install tomorrow, I'd greatly appreciate confirmation of basic procedure.
If I've correctly absorbed relevant threads pertaining to installation of new Head Gasket with ARP studs, this is an attempt at condensing the procedure and torques:

A. Installing and tightening studs in "customary" pattern, opposing holes from center of head to outermost holes. Some posts made this sound optional, but I'm doing it anyway.
B. Lightly pre-lube ARPS:
At nut-end (Un-flared, finer threads);
At nut threads;
At both sides of washers.
Do NOT lube ARPs at block threads (flared end of stud, coarser threads).

"Pre-assemble" studs, washers and nut, threading nut until flush with stud-end. Then install all 18 studs until finger-tight.
Commence torque sequence.
A. 40#;
B. 85#;
C. During final tightening sequence, torque the inner 10 studs that border the cylinders to 130#, but the remaining outer 8 studs to 125#.
NO loosening required between B & C.

A member's post shared the results of a phone consultation with an ARP factory tech whom apparently specified a uniform final torque of 125# at ALL 18 studs, with no loosening required between 2nd and final torques. Posts elsewhere suggested that the 8 outer bolts could be pumped from 120# to 125. It seems that in the judgment of LJ's most experienced technicians that those are all acceptable torque values. Subsequently, I'm using the greater combined values.
Also, the installation guide included in the ARPs packaging specifies that it is acceptable to use threadlocker at the block-end of the studs IF fully-torqued while locker is still "wet" (maybe 3 minutes, max?). Tempting... but obviously that would require executing all three torque increments on each stud one-at-a-time. That does not seem like an advisable trade-off instead of tightening all 18 studs in three sequential single-increments.

ANY CORRECTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS?
Thanks!

QUESTIONS:
Do or don't use any coating on head gasket? Maybe a light, even coat of copper spray?
Any reason NOT to re-install glos before head install?
Any arguments against spraying the block, head and intake with high temp paint? Mainly recreational, but I like spraying iron blocks silver to help locate any future fluid leaks (Block Silver/Head Blue/Intake Silver. Maybe even "emboss" all raised lettering and serials... :lol:

Also hugely grateful for excellent posts regarding tbelt install, particularly to leave cam-sprockets LOOSE until the tbelt is on and tensioned before 80# tight. THAAANK YOU!!!
Given prior experience on woodruffed cams I definitely would've snugged them prior to belt install... and regretted it.

I've done around 70 soob 2.5 HGs; their reusable (thankfully,) OEM head-bolts have a similar head-bolt cap to the ARPs. Rather than using a 12-point conventional socket, I've found these commonly available "square sine wave" sockets obtain a far more secure purchase:
Image

Also, someone suggested that while everything is off it's an excellent opportunity to drill and tap an eighth-inch (1/8th") NPT threaded-hole into the intake for future use (man. pressure gauge, other...). Scouting around, I found that the left-side "cam-lock" hole is, in fact, 1/8th NPT:
Image
Given that hole is normally plugged anyway, good idea and location? Suggestions for other location?

THANKS!!!

Keywords: Cylinder Head Gasket installation procedure, head gasket install, H. Gasket, ARP torque specifications, ARP installation, ARP specs.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Looks like you are aware of the torque procedure. No worries there.

Dont use thread locker on the studs.

I used mopar head gasket spray (red sticky stuff) on mine.

The purpose of tapping the intake manifold is for installing a boost gauge. That plug for the cam pin is not part of the intake path.
Author:  Dent [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Also, I hope you didn't screw that fitting in your cam plug hole with too much force. I would guess those threads are more likely 8mm x 1.25 than any NPT thread. I think it's sealed with a washer which makes no sense if it's pipe thread.
Author:  olypopper [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Are you replacing your cam seals at the same time? Mine had one seal that was leaking so I did both when the engine was out and I'm glad I did....I'd hate to be back into it after such a job has been wrapped up.
Author:  Gypsy62 [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Thanks, Flash. As long as that condensed HG procedure is approved, I'll load up keywords to assist search engine.
My Mexicano machine shop advised a fine, even coat of copper spray on both sides of HG for installation (wait 'till tacky); I suppose I'll go that route. Because Six-Star HG's install dry on Soobs I'm unused to bothering with coating (for soobs, Six Star makes the ONLY HG providing long-term reliability). Decades ago, I ritually used Indian Head on HGs; I think that stuff may date back to the '30's...

Re blue NPT elbow fitting, it's just snugged finger-tight about three threads, but went in nicely...
So, where's a good location to tap the intake man for boost gauge, particularly to avoid obstructions following complete engine systems reassembly? Presuming a boost gauge would be located in the cabin within driver's view (pillar-mount?), it seems like tapping the intake plenum towards the rear-left would be advantageous. I'll scope some fully-assembled engine pics and evaluate where there's no obstructing system components. Thanks for input!

Yes, I've installed new front crank seal and both cam seals. Still, thanks for heads-up!

Any other suggestions greatly appreciated!
Author:  lacabrera [ Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Gypsy62 wrote:
(Finally!) Before committing to the install tomorrow, I'd greatly appreciate confirmation of basic procedure.
If I've correctly absorbed relevant threads pertaining to installation of new Head Gasket with ARP studs, this is an attempt at condensing the procedure and torques:

A. Installing and tightening studs in "customary" pattern, opposing holes from center of head to outermost holes. Some posts made this sound optional, but I'm doing it anyway.
B. Lightly pre-lube ARPS:
At nut-end (Un-flared, finer threads);
At nut threads;
At both sides of washers.
Do NOT lube ARPs at block threads (flared end of stud, coarser threads).

"Pre-assemble" studs, washers and nut, threading nut until flush with stud-end. Then install all 18 studs until finger-tight.
Commence torque sequence.
A. 40#;
B. 85#;
C. During final tightening sequence, torque the inner 10 studs that border the cylinders to 130#, but the remaining outer 8 studs to 125#.
NO loosening required between B & C.

A member's post shared the results of a phone consultation with an ARP factory tech whom apparently specified a uniform final torque of 125# at ALL 18 studs, with no loosening required between 2nd and final torques. Posts elsewhere suggested that the 8 outer bolts could be pumped from 120# to 125. It seems that in the judgment of LJ's most experienced technicians that those are all acceptable torque values. Subsequently, I'm using the greater combined values.
Also, the installation guide included in the ARPs packaging specifies that it is acceptable to use threadlocker at the head-end of the studs IF fully-torqued while locker is still "wet" (maybe 3 minutes, max?). Tempting... but obviously that would require executing all three torque increments on each stud one-at-a-time. That does not seem like an advisable trade-off instead of tightening all 18 studs in three sequential single-increments.

ANY CORRECTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS?
Thanks!

QUESTIONS:
Do or don't use any coating on head gasket? Maybe a light, even coat of copper spray?
Any reason NOT to re-install glos before head install?
Any arguments against spraying the block, head and intake with high temp paint? Mainly recreational, but I like spraying iron blocks silver to help locate any future fluid leaks (Block Silver/Head Blue/Intake Silver. Maybe even "emboss" all raised lettering and serials... :lol:

Also hugely grateful for excellent posts regarding tbelt install, particularly to leave cam-sprockets LOOSE until the tbelt is on and tensioned before 80# tight. THAAANK YOU!!!
Given prior experience on woodruffed cams I definitely would've snugged them prior to belt install... and regretted it.

I've done around 70 soob 2.5 HGs; their reusable (thankfully,) OEM head-bolts have a similar head-bolt cap to the ARPs. Rather than using a 12-point conventional socket, I've found these commonly available "square sine wave" sockets obtain a far more secure purchase:
Image

Also, someone suggested that while everything is off it's an excellent opportunity to drill and tap an 1/8th" NPT threaded-hole into the intake for future use (man. pressure gauge, other...). Scouting around, I found that the left-side "cam-lock" hole is, in fact, 1/8th NPT:
Image
Given that hole is normally plugged anyway, good idea and location? Suggestions for other location?

THANKS!!!

Keywords: Cylinder Head Gasket installation procedure, head gasket install, H. Gasket, ARP torque specifications, ARP installation, ARP specs.


Not sure if other members have mentioned this but that tapping you show in the photo will not help you with inlet manifold pressure? The only reading will be crankcase pressure/vacuum. Drill and tap into the inlet manifold section of the casing.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
This is a good location to install a fitting for a boost gauge!
Right next to engine dipstick tube. Plenty of metal at this location.
Requires drilling a small like 1/8 hole into the intake and tapping hole to 1/8 pipe threads to install a fitting! :wink:

Image

Image
Author:  Gypsy62 [ Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Awesome, WW; I may also pilfer your surrounding custom "German-Hillbilly" setup of braided-lines und duct-tape :BANANA:
Thanks!

QUESTION- Isn't that a mount-hole for some kinda' bracket?
Did you locate the boost-tap there after some kinda "component delete"??? While I'm a newbie to these and it's been almost four months since I tore this apart, *#@÷!!!, some random memory places a bracket (alternator?) in those two adjacent intake mounting holes, no?

Took my jolly time today.
Proof:
Image
Image

:-)r okay, it's not just me, right? The Italian-made VMotori emblem looks almost identical to the Waste Management logo !
For non-US members, that is an openly mafia-owned US nationwide garbage mega-corporation. Tooo Fn funny !!!
:ROTFL:

BEFORE I tap it up to 1/8" NPT, I'm still hoping someone will confirm that WW's boost-tap location isn't assigned to some stock bracket.
Thanks.
-Update- just scoped a pic on Sam's noob guide; assuming that's a fully-stock engine pictured, WW's tap-location is available and indeed ideal. Dawn's first task.
Author:  flman [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Maybe too late, but lube on both thread of the studs to prevent galling per ARP.
Author:  lacabrera [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
Gypsy62 wrote:
Awesome, WW; I may also pilfer your surrounding custom "German-Hillbilly" setup of braided-lines und duct-tape :BANANA:
Thanks!

QUESTION- Isn't that a mount-hole for some kinda' bracket?
Did you locate the boost-tap there after some kinda "component delete"??? While I'm a newbie to these and it's been almost four months since I tore this apart, *#@÷!!!, some random memory places a bracket (alternator?) in those two adjacent intake mounting holes, no?

Took my jolly time today.
Proof:
Image
Image

:-)r okay, it's not just me, right? The Italian-made VMotori emblem looks almost identical to the Waste Management logo !
For non-US members, that is an openly mafia-owned US nationwide garbage mega-corporation. Tooo Fn funny !!!
:ROTFL:

BEFORE I tap it up to 1/8" NPT, I'm still hoping someone will confirm that WW's boost-tap location isn't assigned to some stock bracket.
Thanks.
-Update- just scoped a pic on Sam's noob guide; assuming that's a fully-stock engine pictured, WW's tap-location is available and indeed ideal. Dawn's first task.

The upper right thread on the casing is not used in this application, the other 3 are used for the alternator bracket.
Author:  Gypsy62 [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket tomorrow, confirmations appreciat
DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF THE FRONT CRANK SEAL FROM A DIFFERENT ENGINE WILL FIT THE VM???
If so, I may still have time to hunt one down and remedy the following:

I forgot to mention:
I was severely disappointed with the front crank seal supplied by IDparts; it is a shoddy-feeling single-lip p.o.s.! It arrived in a Mopar box (part #5179633AA), so I presumed that the old seal would be similar. Removal revealed it to be a conventional but sturdy two-lip design, and I strongly suspect that it was the original factory oil seal. I was seriously P.O.'d that I was stuck replacing it with that single-lip crap seal. I don't have the time to hunt for a better quality substitute online nor wait for delivery. I'm currently in Mexico where the VM was never sold so retail parts stores stock nothing for them.
I'm certainly not dumping on IDparts and should say that the two cam seals they supplied were fine, but if I was working on a horizontally-opposed engine (leakers) there's no way I would've installed that single-lip crank seal. I highly recommend sourcing a better seal; it couldnt hurt if members requested that IDPARTS replace their current front-crank offering with an adequate seal.

FRONT CRANK SEAL CAME IN MOPAR BOX STAMPED PART# 0517 9633 AA-001, HOWEVER, IT APPEARS THAT IDPARTS PLACED IT'S OWN HOME-MADE PARTS-STAMP ON THERE, # 3588, so maybe they aren't supplying the actual OEM Mopar seal in the Mopar box (?).
Author:  Gypsy62 [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket, confirmations appreciated:
Anticipating a future boost-gauge, I tapped and (temporarily) plugged an eighth-inch NPT hole in the intake man. where Flash recommends; YOU D'MAN!. I was paranoid about possibly cracking the aluminum if I drilled/tapped too small or over-shooting the fit (=too loose) if drilling too large. Hence, I spent three-hours dialing the fit; sorry I didn't write-down the final drill-bit size (those of you saying "Uh, 1/8" bit? can hose-off ).
Bottom line: keep in mind that taps are tapered, so you can bias nominally on the big side. I tapped enough to insert any 1/8" NPT fitting about six-threads deep; given that the hole "tapers tight" that seems sufficient:
Image

The other concern was insuring that any metal filings from the tapping procedure are removed from the intake plenum !!!
I taped-off all the intake-holes except the "main-in" and then used air to blow-through any metal particles. Then, I used a lint-free rag to physically "plow" the plenum clean (+/- 10-passes, all directions). It didn't hurt that previously I'd had the assembly tank-cleaned at the same machine shop that handled the head:
Image

Given the accumulated crud pre-Sasquatch, a satisfying transformation.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket, confirmations appreciated:
Yeah that's not the intake you have your elbow fitted into there. It will, however, do a decent imitation of an oil spouting volcano if you leave it there and crank it up.
But before you get to that point you'll have to remove it to time the cams anyway.
WW's location is a former EGR mount, if I'm not mistaken. probably for the FCV.
If you're installing a stage 1 Weeks kit, there's a bracket that goes somewhere around there that will be used as a top mount for the Vacuum Supply Tube.

PLEASE coat that beautiful detail work with a good chemical resistant clear polyurethane. Semi-gloss or flat if you can get it. It would be heartbreaking to have some dripped / splattered oil or brake or hydraulic fluid dissolve that and make it disappear. That's looks really nice!
Author:  Gypsy62 [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing head gasket, confirmations appreciated:
Updated pic of tap location in prior post. Replaced pictured -6 AN hose elbow with basic 1/8" NPT plug until boost-gauge happens.

Yeah, I know the paint job is hella' goofy, but it does kinda' help contrast different systems when metal components are 'silvered'. I topped-it with three coats of high-temp clear-coat.
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