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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:39 pm
Posts: 588
Location: North east-central Illinois
fool4wheelin wrote:
What kind of fuel are you using? Blended, or straight #1? Hopefully not #2.

I'm still running the stock 7V ceramic GP's and I can cold start reliably down to -15°F. Used to have trouble below 0°F back when I had a flooded Interstate battery, but haven't had any issues since upgrading to a Sears Die Hard Platinum (850 CCA AGM).

You can certainly switch to the Mopar 5V plugs with a GDE tune, they offer a reflash for a minimal fee to update the tune to 5V.


Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good.

It could be a very expensive gamble.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 142,000 miles New engine 2-2014, Green Eco tune, FS2500 bypass filter Weeks elbow, European Torque converter, brakes front UCA's wheel bearing and front hubs. Front hitch OEM lift pump
98 K2500 Suburban 6.5td
96 K1500 " 6.5td
95 2 door Tahoe 6.5td
94 K3500 cc srw 5 speed 6.5td
91 International Model 6 speed spicer 4700


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Location: Fargo, ND
jrsavoie wrote:
Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good.

It could be a very expensive gamble.
Not for too much longer, in the process of changing out my head gasket (see my other thread) and I'm planning on installing the 5V plugs. My ceramics appeared to be fully intact, although one of them appeared to be missing a small "flake" on the side.
jksuperstar wrote:
I did replace the Glow Plug Relay/Controller, and while I was in there, I felt the fuel heater wires (well, the connector inline with the wires) get REALLY hot to the touch. I pulled that apart and found the connection was corroded, so stripped & soldered & sealed it back together...no more heat, so my guess is the fuel heater should be a bit more efficient now. After these two things, I've noticed my >32deg starts have improved greatly. Still rough below that.
Does the fuel heater in the filter head do much for cold starting?

With cold starting and the CRD you have to start with the basics of proper fuel and a good battery and go from there. Glow plugs take plenty of juice and can render a weak battery useless.

racertracer wrote:
I just received my new set of authentic 5v Bosch metal glow plugs from Europe and will be installing them when i have some free time. The Etecnos willbe gone

33.74 pound sterling (41.62 US Dollars) delivered to my address in the states, ..... 15 days delivery time from England and includes 5.00 dollars delivery charge.

Code 0250402003-GS Product 1x Bosch Sheathed Element Glow Plug 0250402003 - Qty 4

The Green Spark Plug Co Ltd (Parent Company of) Car Spark Plugs & Motorcycle Spark Plugs
This is crazy, can buy these from Britain for less than 1/2 the cost as from domestic retailers. Only £3.30 for Worldwide Royal Mail, Seriously?!? Do they also sell rockers and ARP studs?
http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-bosch-sheathed-element-glow-plug-0250402003.html?___SID=U

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2005 Liberty (KJ) CRD Limited - GDE FT ECO-Tune, Custom Trans Tune, Euro TC, Gasser Fan w/Hayden Clutch, DieHard Platinum Battery
1998 Cherokee (XJ) Classic - 30" Discoverer STT's on 2" Lift, SYE, 8.25 w/Aussie Locker
1984 CJ7 (CJ) - Stock


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:46 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:39 pm
Posts: 588
Location: North east-central Illinois
fool4wheelin wrote:
jrsavoie wrote:
Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good.

It could be a very expensive gamble.
Not for too much longer, in the process of changing out my head gasket (see my other thread) and I'm planning on installing the 5V plugs. My ceramics appeared to be fully intact, although one of them appeared to be missing a small "flake" on the side.
jksuperstar wrote:
I did replace the Glow Plug Relay/Controller, and while I was in there, I felt the fuel heater wires (well, the connector inline with the wires) get REALLY hot to the touch. I pulled that apart and found the connection was corroded, so stripped & soldered & sealed it back together...no more heat, so my guess is the fuel heater should be a bit more efficient now. After these two things, I've noticed my >32deg starts have improved greatly. Still rough below that.
Does the fuel heater in the filter head do much for cold starting?

With cold starting and the CRD you have to start with the basics of proper fuel and a good battery and go from there. Glow plugs take plenty of juice and can render a weak battery useless.

racertracer wrote:
I just received my new set of authentic 5v Bosch metal glow plugs from Europe and will be installing them when i have some free time. The Etecnos willbe gone

33.74 pound sterling (41.62 US Dollars) delivered to my address in the states, ..... 15 days delivery time from England and includes 5.00 dollars delivery charge.

Code 0250402003-GS Product 1x Bosch Sheathed Element Glow Plug 0250402003 - Qty 4

The Green Spark Plug Co Ltd (Parent Company of) Car Spark Plugs & Motorcycle Spark Plugs
This is crazy, can buy these from Britain for less than 1/2 the cost as from domestic retailers. Only £3.30 for Worldwide Royal Mail, Seriously?!? Do they also sell rockers and ARP studs?
http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-bosch-sheathed-element-glow-plug-0250402003.html?___SID=U


Check on the facebook CRD page. There has been talk on there of people getting quality parts for cheaper prices from Europe. I ordered a couple things from Europe and was amazed that I could get them significantly cheaper than I could buy them here for
https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 142,000 miles New engine 2-2014, Green Eco tune, FS2500 bypass filter Weeks elbow, European Torque converter, brakes front UCA's wheel bearing and front hubs. Front hitch OEM lift pump
98 K2500 Suburban 6.5td
96 K1500 " 6.5td
95 2 door Tahoe 6.5td
94 K3500 cc srw 5 speed 6.5td
91 International Model 6 speed spicer 4700


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 30
Location: 5280 ft.
Prepping for the coming winter, I am finally deciding on installing a lift pump.

I thought the easy way to do it (myself, at night) would be to avoid the tank drop, and install a Facet 40109 by the tank.

But inspecting the fuel lines, I noticed the hard- plastic flexible tubing that runs between the tank and my steel lines is hanging directly over the rear differential, and is low enough for the differential to be rubbing on the return connector (I think). Just as bad, the two fuel lines go through a fastener, and one of the lines is bent enough to restrict flow. It's bent bad enough that I think it's the return line, otherwise I'd experience bad acceleration and fuel starvation. It's also not what I want happening when I'm going to install a lift pump that will require more use of the return line.

Does anyone have a photo of this fuel line fastener, that sits right above the rear differential on an '06? I'd like to know the intended orientation, as I'm not sure if the steel lines have been bent down a little and are sitting out of place too.

And is there a part # to replace the fuel lines between the steel lines and the fuel pump module? never mind, I see some others have used 5/16 and 3/8 fuel lines and clamps, I wasn't sure the plastic on the pump could handle it.

If I need to replace them, then I might as well go for an in-tank lift pump option.

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06 Liberty CRD Sport
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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:24 pm 
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An in-tank pump is certainly the best option... :wink:
Many on here have went that route and are very satisfied with the results!

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2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
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Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 30
Location: 5280 ft.
Finally got around to installing a Carter lift pump and replacing the quick connect lines to the tank. And very happy to hear the whirrrrr of the pump on the first go. Took maybe 5 hours total, and I'm so glad there is enough information on this site to add the wires with some extra pins from Jameco for a few pennies (literally) instead of shoveling $230 for a harness from Sasquatch. The wiring was far easier than lifting the back seat & carpet. Should've just committed to cutting the carpet from the start :). It's nice to feel the filter purge pump go solid whiteout pumping & purging 40 times. Now I just have to wait for winter, to see if my problems have finally been solved.

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06 Liberty CRD Sport
Virgin to mods so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:49 pm
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Location: 5280 ft.
Now that temps are dropping, I've been monitoring the coolant temps before I start the engine (via OBD & Torque Pro app). I've long suspected the Coolant Temp Sensor to be effecting glow plug timing in a bad way.

I've noticed that the temps never read below 70F, even after sitting all night in 48degree rain, or while at work for 9 hours at 58degree sun. Same 70-71F before start.

Anyone know if OBD reads are accurate for pre start up temps?

Or is there a voltage/resistance I can read from the sensor for a better gauge of its operation?

(Edit) This morning it read 57 with ambient of 47 outside.

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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 pm
Posts: 275
Location: Southeast Michigan
If you're noticing problems with cold starts, you may want to try replacing the sensor. I remember reading a post mentioning that a while back:
cevans wrote:
I was able to get a new temperature sensor into the 2005 and it did improve cold starting quite a bit. Based on my OBD reader it seemed that the sensor was reading just fine, but, apparently it was enough out of range to hurt things.

These things are extremely sensitive to very small temperature changes. If the sensor was off 5 degrees it could really hurt cold starting.
source: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85954&p=906995#p906995


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:56 pm 
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I threw so much at this little mule to keep it going another 100k miles, I'm glad this is worth just doing at this point (160k mi). Thanks!

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06 Liberty CRD Sport
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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:08 pm 
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jksuperstar wrote:
Now that temps are dropping, I've been monitoring the coolant temps before I start the engine (via OBD & Torque Pro app). I've long suspected the Coolant Temp Sensor to be effecting glow plug timing in a bad way.

I've noticed that the temps never read below 70F, even after sitting all night in 48degree rain, or while at work for 9 hours at 58degree sun. Same 70-71F before start.

Anyone know if OBD reads are accurate for pre start up temps?

Or is there a voltage/resistance I can read from the sensor for a better gauge of its operation?

(Edit) This morning it read 57 with ambient of 47 outside.


Yes the coolant should read below 70 via torque.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The Red Rocket-2006 CRD-400 ft-lb tune, Eco Trans Tune, Week's Kit, Mishimoto Hoses, Airtex Lift Pump, HDS Tstat, 2 Micron Racor, ARP's, OME 790's+top plate+clevis, JBA 2.5" rear+Iso, JBA UCA, Moab's, 265/70R16 Duratracs, ARB Bumper

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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:18 am 
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I changed the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor.

darn. Had our first frost, and it took 5-6 key turns to get started :(. This is the same behavior before as before adding a lift pump, temp sensor, new glow plugs, new glow plugs control module/relay.

I guess it's time to really look deeper at the fuel rail pressure....

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Virgin to mods so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:12 am 
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What glow plugs are you using?
You might want to try switching to 5v plugs but keep the 7v programming.

You can monitor fuel rail pressure with the TorquePro app.
Or do like I did and install a AutoMeter fuel rail pressure gauge.
But if fuel rail pressure were really a problem, a code would be set.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
Cheap 1 inch lift, 245-75R-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Bosch / Mopar are no longer your only 5V option.

I've been running these with stock "7V" tune since last winter, and even before I got it running correctly, it has always started in 5 revolutions or less. How long they will last, I don't know, but they have not failed me yet.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Gordnado, what do you see for air temps? I'm in the northern part of Wisconsin so we get well into below zero temperatures. I've been looking at glow plug options and it seems this would be best.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

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-Timing belt
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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:41 pm 
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When I put these in, they were -5 to +20F in the mornings. Currently around 38f in the morning up to mid 50ish on the occasional sunny day. Was 27F last night. currently 58F. Nice today.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:49 pm
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Location: 5280 ft.
I have 7V Etechnos with a new relay/controller, ECU is 7v Green Diesel ECO.

I've been monitoring the rail pressure on the 40F deg mornings, and it pops up to 5-10k pretty instantly.

Despite a new coolant temp sensor though, the coolant was reading +10 F deg over ambient in the mornings. Could be residual heat after sitting for 12hours. The running temp reads ~175F +/-.

My issues have always been <30F though, so I'll keep monitoring when the temps drop again. I'm tempted to try a potentiometer in parallel with the coolant temp sensor to "control" the glow plugs timing and see if it makes a difference.

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Virgin to mods so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:10 am 
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Quote:
Despite a new coolant temp sensor though, the coolant was reading +10 F deg over ambient in the mornings. Could be residual heat after sitting for 12hours. The running temp reads ~175F +/-.

A +10 deg difference is nothing to worry about.
Could be residual heat, insulated by vehicle and engine block.
Could also be a variance of local thermometers. Are you using an actual thermometer next to your jeep or are you relying on your local accuweather forecast?

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
Cheap 1 inch lift, 245-75R-16 tires.
Still love it.


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