LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Yet another Cold Start thread

What kind of fuel are you using? Blended, or straight #1? Hopefully not #2.

I'm still running the stock 7V ceramic GP's and I can cold start reliably down to -15°F. Used to have trouble below 0°F back when I had a flooded Interstate battery, but haven't had any issues since upgrading to a Sears Die Hard Platinum (850 CCA AGM).

You can certainly switch to the Mopar 5V plugs with a GDE tune, they offer a reflash for a minimal fee to update the tune to 5V.

Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good.

It could be a very expensive gamble.

I did replace the Glow Plug Relay/Controller, and while I was in there, I felt the fuel heater wires (well, the connector inline with the wires) get REALLY hot to the touch. I pulled that apart and found the connection was corroded, so stripped & soldered & sealed it back together...no more heat, so my guess is the fuel heater should be a bit more efficient now. After these two things, I've noticed my >32deg starts have improved greatly. Still rough below that.

I just received my new set of authentic 5v Bosch metal glow plugs from Europe and will be installing them when i have some free time. The Etecnos willbe gone

33.74 pound sterling (41.62 US Dollars) delivered to my address in the states, ..... 15 days delivery time from England and includes 5.00 dollars delivery charge.

Code 0250402003-GS Product 1x Bosch Sheathed Element Glow Plug 0250402003 - Qty 4

The Green Spark Plug Co Ltd (Parent Company of) Car Spark Plugs & Motorcycle Spark Plugs

jrsavoie wrote:

Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good.

It could be a very expensive gamble.

Not for too much longer, in the process of changing out my head gasket (see my other thread) and I'm planning on installing the 5V plugs. My ceramics appeared to be fully intact, although one of them appeared to be missing a small "flake" on the side.

jksuperstar wrote:

Does the fuel heater in the filter head do much for cold starting?

With cold starting and the CRD you have to start with the basics of proper fuel and a good battery and go from there. Glow plugs take plenty of juice and can render a weak battery useless.

racertracer wrote:

This is crazy, can buy these from Britain for less than 1/2 the cost as from domestic retailers. Only £3.30 for Worldwide Royal Mail, Seriously?!? Do they also sell rockers and ARP studs?
http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-bosch-sheathed-element-glow-plug-0250402003.html?___SID=U

I was able to get a new temperature sensor into the 2005 and it did improve cold starting quite a bit. Based on my OBD reader it seemed that the sensor was reading just fine, but, apparently it was enough out of range to hurt things.

These things are extremely sensitive to very small temperature changes. If the sensor was off 5 degrees it could really hurt cold starting.

Now that temps are dropping, I've been monitoring the coolant temps before I start the engine (via OBD & Torque Pro app). I've long suspected the Coolant Temp Sensor to be effecting glow plug timing in a bad way.

I've noticed that the temps never read below 70F, even after sitting all night in 48degree rain, or while at work for 9 hours at 58degree sun. Same 70-71F before start.

Anyone know if OBD reads are accurate for pre start up temps?

Or is there a voltage/resistance I can read from the sensor for a better gauge of its operation?

(Edit) This morning it read 57 with ambient of 47 outside.

Despite a new coolant temp sensor though, the coolant was reading +10 F deg over ambient in the mornings. Could be residual heat after sitting for 12hours. The running temp reads ~175F +/-.

Author:	jrsavoie [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
fool4wheelin wrote: What kind of fuel are you using? Blended, or straight #1? Hopefully not #2. I'm still running the stock 7V ceramic GP's and I can cold start reliably down to -15°F. Used to have trouble below 0°F back when I had a flooded Interstate battery, but haven't had any issues since upgrading to a Sears Die Hard Platinum (850 CCA AGM). You can certainly switch to the Mopar 5V plugs with a GDE tune, they offer a reflash for a minimal fee to update the tune to 5V. Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good. It could be a very expensive gamble.

Author:	fool4wheelin [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
jrsavoie wrote: Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good. It could be a very expensive gamble. Not for too much longer, in the process of changing out my head gasket (see my other thread) and I'm planning on installing the 5V plugs. My ceramics appeared to be fully intact, although one of them appeared to be missing a small "flake" on the side. jksuperstar wrote: I did replace the Glow Plug Relay/Controller, and while I was in there, I felt the fuel heater wires (well, the connector inline with the wires) get REALLY hot to the touch. I pulled that apart and found the connection was corroded, so stripped & soldered & sealed it back together...no more heat, so my guess is the fuel heater should be a bit more efficient now. After these two things, I've noticed my >32deg starts have improved greatly. Still rough below that. Does the fuel heater in the filter head do much for cold starting? With cold starting and the CRD you have to start with the basics of proper fuel and a good battery and go from there. Glow plugs take plenty of juice and can render a weak battery useless. racertracer wrote: I just received my new set of authentic 5v Bosch metal glow plugs from Europe and will be installing them when i have some free time. The Etecnos willbe gone 33.74 pound sterling (41.62 US Dollars) delivered to my address in the states, ..... 15 days delivery time from England and includes 5.00 dollars delivery charge. Code 0250402003-GS Product 1x Bosch Sheathed Element Glow Plug 0250402003 - Qty 4 The Green Spark Plug Co Ltd (Parent Company of) Car Spark Plugs & Motorcycle Spark Plugs This is crazy, can buy these from Britain for less than 1/2 the cost as from domestic retailers. Only £3.30 for Worldwide Royal Mail, Seriously?!? Do they also sell rockers and ARP studs? http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-bosch-sheathed-element-glow-plug-0250402003.html?___SID=U

Author:	jrsavoie [ Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
fool4wheelin wrote: jrsavoie wrote: Running ceramics would scare the bejesus out of me. My luck is not that good. It could be a very expensive gamble. Not for too much longer, in the process of changing out my head gasket (see my other thread) and I'm planning on installing the 5V plugs. My ceramics appeared to be fully intact, although one of them appeared to be missing a small "flake" on the side. jksuperstar wrote: I did replace the Glow Plug Relay/Controller, and while I was in there, I felt the fuel heater wires (well, the connector inline with the wires) get REALLY hot to the touch. I pulled that apart and found the connection was corroded, so stripped & soldered & sealed it back together...no more heat, so my guess is the fuel heater should be a bit more efficient now. After these two things, I've noticed my >32deg starts have improved greatly. Still rough below that. Does the fuel heater in the filter head do much for cold starting? With cold starting and the CRD you have to start with the basics of proper fuel and a good battery and go from there. Glow plugs take plenty of juice and can render a weak battery useless. racertracer wrote: I just received my new set of authentic 5v Bosch metal glow plugs from Europe and will be installing them when i have some free time. The Etecnos willbe gone 33.74 pound sterling (41.62 US Dollars) delivered to my address in the states, ..... 15 days delivery time from England and includes 5.00 dollars delivery charge. Code 0250402003-GS Product 1x Bosch Sheathed Element Glow Plug 0250402003 - Qty 4 The Green Spark Plug Co Ltd (Parent Company of) Car Spark Plugs & Motorcycle Spark Plugs This is crazy, can buy these from Britain for less than 1/2 the cost as from domestic retailers. Only £3.30 for Worldwide Royal Mail, Seriously?!? Do they also sell rockers and ARP studs? http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-bosch-sheathed-element-glow-plug-0250402003.html?___SID=U Check on the facebook CRD page. There has been talk on there of people getting quality parts for cheaper prices from Europe. I ordered a couple things from Europe and was amazed that I could get them significantly cheaper than I could buy them here for https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

Author:	jksuperstar [ Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Prepping for the coming winter, I am finally deciding on installing a lift pump. I thought the easy way to do it (myself, at night) would be to avoid the tank drop, and install a Facet 40109 by the tank. But inspecting the fuel lines, I noticed the hard- plastic flexible tubing that runs between the tank and my steel lines is hanging directly over the rear differential, and is low enough for the differential to be rubbing on the return connector (I think). Just as bad, the two fuel lines go through a fastener, and one of the lines is bent enough to restrict flow. It's bent bad enough that I think it's the return line, otherwise I'd experience bad acceleration and fuel starvation. It's also not what I want happening when I'm going to install a lift pump that will require more use of the return line. Does anyone have a photo of this fuel line fastener, that sits right above the rear differential on an '06? I'd like to know the intended orientation, as I'm not sure if the steel lines have been bent down a little and are sitting out of place too. And is there a part # to replace the fuel lines between the steel lines and the fuel pump module? never mind, I see some others have used 5/16 and 3/8 fuel lines and clamps, I wasn't sure the plastic on the pump could handle it. If I need to replace them, then I might as well go for an in-tank lift pump option.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
An in-tank pump is certainly the best option... Many on here have went that route and are very satisfied with the results!

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Yet another Cold Start thread http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85925	Page 2 of 2

Author:	jksuperstar [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Finally got around to installing a Carter lift pump and replacing the quick connect lines to the tank. And very happy to hear the whirrrrr of the pump on the first go. Took maybe 5 hours total, and I'm so glad there is enough information on this site to add the wires with some extra pins from Jameco for a few pennies (literally) instead of shoveling $230 for a harness from Sasquatch. The wiring was far easier than lifting the back seat & carpet. Should've just committed to cutting the carpet from the start . It's nice to feel the filter purge pump go solid whiteout pumping & purging 40 times. Now I just have to wait for winter, to see if my problems have finally been solved.

Author:	jksuperstar [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Now that temps are dropping, I've been monitoring the coolant temps before I start the engine (via OBD & Torque Pro app). I've long suspected the Coolant Temp Sensor to be effecting glow plug timing in a bad way. I've noticed that the temps never read below 70F, even after sitting all night in 48degree rain, or while at work for 9 hours at 58degree sun. Same 70-71F before start. Anyone know if OBD reads are accurate for pre start up temps? Or is there a voltage/resistance I can read from the sensor for a better gauge of its operation? (Edit) This morning it read 57 with ambient of 47 outside.

Author:	joe_ [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
If you're noticing problems with cold starts, you may want to try replacing the sensor. I remember reading a post mentioning that a while back: cevans wrote: I was able to get a new temperature sensor into the 2005 and it did improve cold starting quite a bit. Based on my OBD reader it seemed that the sensor was reading just fine, but, apparently it was enough out of range to hurt things. These things are extremely sensitive to very small temperature changes. If the sensor was off 5 degrees it could really hurt cold starting. source: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85954&p=906995#p906995

Author:	jksuperstar [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
I threw so much at this little mule to keep it going another 100k miles, I'm glad this is worth just doing at this point (160k mi). Thanks!

Author:	mass-hole [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
jksuperstar wrote: Now that temps are dropping, I've been monitoring the coolant temps before I start the engine (via OBD & Torque Pro app). I've long suspected the Coolant Temp Sensor to be effecting glow plug timing in a bad way. I've noticed that the temps never read below 70F, even after sitting all night in 48degree rain, or while at work for 9 hours at 58degree sun. Same 70-71F before start. Anyone know if OBD reads are accurate for pre start up temps? Or is there a voltage/resistance I can read from the sensor for a better gauge of its operation? (Edit) This morning it read 57 with ambient of 47 outside. Yes the coolant should read below 70 via torque. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	jksuperstar [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
I changed the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor. darn. Had our first frost, and it took 5-6 key turns to get started . This is the same behavior before as before adding a lift pump, temp sensor, new glow plugs, new glow plugs control module/relay. I guess it's time to really look deeper at the fuel rail pressure....

Author:	flash7210 [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
What glow plugs are you using? You might want to try switching to 5v plugs but keep the 7v programming. You can monitor fuel rail pressure with the TorquePro app. Or do like I did and install a AutoMeter fuel rail pressure gauge. But if fuel rail pressure were really a problem, a code would be set.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Bosch / Mopar are no longer your only 5V option. I've been running these with stock "7V" tune since last winter, and even before I got it running correctly, it has always started in 5 revolutions or less. How long they will last, I don't know, but they have not failed me yet.

Author:	HER_CRD [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Gordnado, what do you see for air temps? I'm in the northern part of Wisconsin so we get well into below zero temperatures. I've been looking at glow plug options and it seems this would be best. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

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Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
When I put these in, they were -5 to +20F in the mornings. Currently around 38f in the morning up to mid 50ish on the occasional sunny day. Was 27F last night. currently 58F. Nice today.

Author:	jksuperstar [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
I have 7V Etechnos with a new relay/controller, ECU is 7v Green Diesel ECO. I've been monitoring the rail pressure on the 40F deg mornings, and it pops up to 5-10k pretty instantly. Despite a new coolant temp sensor though, the coolant was reading +10 F deg over ambient in the mornings. Could be residual heat after sitting for 12hours. The running temp reads ~175F +/-. My issues have always been <30F though, so I'll keep monitoring when the temps drop again. I'm tempted to try a potentiometer in parallel with the coolant temp sensor to "control" the glow plugs timing and see if it makes a difference.

Author:	flash7210 [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Quote: Despite a new coolant temp sensor though, the coolant was reading +10 F deg over ambient in the mornings. Could be residual heat after sitting for 12hours. The running temp reads ~175F +/-. A +10 deg difference is nothing to worry about. Could be residual heat, insulated by vehicle and engine block. Could also be a variance of local thermometers. Are you using an actual thermometer next to your jeep or are you relying on your local accuweather forecast?

Author:	jksuperstar [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
I just got my hands on an IR temp gun, so I'll start reading right off the thermostat for comparison.

Author:	jksuperstar [ Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Cold Start thread
Temps were close to freezing yesterday morning with frost on the KJ, and after allowing both the lift pump and GPs to run for a few, it took nearly 12 seconds of turning over to start (key on at 24sec, fired up at 36sec). Didn't get a chance to read the engine temp with the IR gun, but I'd guess the reading here of 37deg was within 5deg of being accurate. A useless measurement, but when "Vehicle Speed" spikes up high twice, the engine had a cylinder or two fire, but the engine doesn't fully start until the speed drops to 0 again.